Is Sonny Liston A Top Ten HW ATG?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by ThatOne, Aug 30, 2023.



Is he?

  1. Yes

    66.7%
  2. No

    33.3%
  1. jabber74

    jabber74 Active Member Full Member

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    You are far from objective yourself! I mean the second someone says something you don't like, then they are being close-minded....

    Liston fought who was there and who was the champ at the time. That's not his fault, but that still doesn't answer any questions as to how great he really was. If he would have fought Patterson a 1000 times, that would have been the same result every time.

    I covered my opinion about Liston better in another post. Look up the post "Liston-Ruddock". his whole life was one big mystery and I do not know where to rank him. He was ponderous and heavy handed, but he did not last long at the top, (some of the reasons which may have been out of his control). There are people on here acting like he would have cleaned out the entire history of the division. Let's not get carried away.
     
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  2. Greg Price99

    Greg Price99 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Even better than that, McVey, assuming we go off the official NBA rankings, it was 8:

    Machen
    Folley
    Harris
    Valdes
    DeJohn
    Williams
    Hunter
    Rischer

    Machen & Folley were ranked in each of the 5 calendar years 1957-61.
     
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  3. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Who did he duck?
     
  4. NoNeck

    NoNeck Pugilist Specialist Full Member

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    Suddenly, the goalposts move.
     
  5. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Undersized ,weak era?

    DeJohn 6. 21/2. 202lbs
    Williams 6.3 210 1/4lbs
    Williams 6.3 215 1/2lbs
    Valdes 6.3 211lbs
    Bethea 6.0 202lbs
    Mederos 6.1 199lbs
    Hunter 6.3 193lbs
    Harris 6.0 195lbs
    Machen 6.0 196lbs
    Folley 6.1 198 1/2lbs
    King 6 .2 195lbs
    These are just his pre-title opponents!
    Want to compare their relative sizes to the contenders that previous champs faced?
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2023
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  6. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Let's rephrase it ,who should he have fought that he didn't?
     
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  7. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    This is what you posted, and its just slanted spin
    "Liston beat a way overmatched Patterson who should not have even been a heavyweight in the first place."
    Patterson went on to be ranked for many years beating the likes of Bonavena,Chuvalo drawing with Quarry and being robbed against Ellis.
    The fact that Liston beat him so effortlessly is a plus for Liston not a minus!
    Why shouldn't Patterson have been heavyweight champ ,his size 6 feet and weight188-196lbs compared very favourably with previous champs.
    Or do you think Dempsey,Tunney, Schmeling. Sharkey,Louis,Walcott,Charles ,and Marciano,also,"should not have been champs?"

    "Two tainted fights against Ali that we'll never know the truth about."
    An older Liston with 3 rds of ring action in the previous 3 years retired with a shoulder injury whilst about level in their first fight. I think he laid down in the 2nd but I cannot say why, his closest friend and sparring partner Foneda Cox said he asked Sonny why he didn't tell him he was going to take a dive ,Liston said ,"with your big mouth we'd both end up wearing cement boots,"

    "Then he was KO'ed by Leotis Martin."
    Liston was in his forties and winning the fight when Martin caught him with a good shot and ko'd him,any shame in that?

    Maybe I'm the odd one out, but I judge a fighter on what he did in the ring,not on whatever mysterious things may or may not have happened in his life.
    "There are people on here acting like he would have cleaned out the entire history of the division. Let's not get carried away."
    Who has claimed this?
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2023
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  8. RockyJim

    RockyJim Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Liston has dropped down considerably in the last few years...he's known as the guy who KO'd "Chinney" Floyd Patterson...and the guy who S**T himself in front of the whole world against Ali in 1964 and 1965.
     
  9. NoNeck

    NoNeck Pugilist Specialist Full Member

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    Ingo
     
  10. NoNeck

    NoNeck Pugilist Specialist Full Member

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    It’s a testament to the weakness of the era that Valdes got by on size while tripping over his own feet.

    IMO Liston would’ve had to have not been embarrassed twice by Ali to be top ten material. Wilder, for instance, didn’t get the best of Fury in the trilogy but he sure as hell let us know that he was nothing to play with. Liston didn’t do that against Ali.
     
  11. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    In 64 fights Patterson was ko'd by two men, Liston twice and Ingo once.
     
  12. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Ingo and his manager were offered a fortune to fight Liston and refused.
    NEXT!
     
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  13. NoNeck

    NoNeck Pugilist Specialist Full Member

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    Would you suggest that Ingo be added to Liston’s resume?
     
  14. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    I'd suggest you do some reading!
    Valdes beat
    Charles no1
    Cockell no2
    Bethea no8
    Neuhaus no8
    DeJohn no7
    London no8
    DeJohn [2] no7
    Jackson no 8
    He also beat;
    Carter
    Summerlin
    Holman
    Erskine
    Richardson
    Agramonte
    Williams
    You do talk some rubbish!
     
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  15. NoNeck

    NoNeck Pugilist Specialist Full Member

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    Yeah, but he looks like a miniature Dominic Breazeale in film.