Is Sonny Liston the most well rounded heavyweight ever on film?

Actually, I think he preferred them. He hated sportswriters

 

You think he didn't like gangsters? One of his favorite guys was Barney Baker, his partner in crime with the Teamsters. He loved Barney. The two of them were goons for the union. Scary individuals, terrifying as a duo.

 

Liston's wife spoke fondly of the gangsters who owned him. She said they were nice to the Listons and helped them get started, at a time when nobody else would give them a chance.

 

On what do you base this?

Joe Walcott was mobbed up.

Of the next several world heavyweight champions — Rocky Marciano, Floyd Patterson, Ingemar Johansson, Sonny Liston, Muhammad Ali, Joe Frazier, George Foreman, etc — only Liston was a mob fighter. So if he ‘had to’ then why didn’t they ‘have to’? Hmmm.

If you’re going to tell me that the managers of some of the above did business with the mob, that’s true because they ‘had to’ — there was a degree of mob control in boxing and if you were doing business you’re doing business with some mob figures, that doesn’t make you a mob figure.

Oh, and who were they doing business with? Blinky Palermo and Frankie Carbo — who were LISTON’S MANAGERS!

 

Do you really believe that the cops weren't picking on Liston for every trivial reason ? There is so much evidence for this that it cannot be denied.
Do you really believe that in the toxic,racist society that the USA was in the 1950s/60s cops
wouldn't have threatened a black man after he had beaten up one of their bigoted colleagues ? Again,don't be so naive.
Of course I'm not saying that Sonny Liston never broke any laws.Do you honestly believe that every other high-profile boxer,or indeed any type of high-profile sportsman, was completely law-abiding ? The treatment that Liston was subjected to was completely disproportinate.
There is ample evidence that Liston had severe bursitis in his shoulder before the first Ali fight.So severe that the fight should have been postponed.
There is also overwhelming affirmation from several doctors that Sonny did indeed tear a tendon in his arm during the fight.
Just for the record in only his 8th professional fight Liston fought several rounds with a broken jaw.The man did not lack heart.

 

The fighter who had his jaw broken was not facing a top-flight opponent. He was facing a string bean light heavyweight who liked to make war whoops when he threw a punch. It was a guy Liston should have been able to beat ten times out of ten. No, he's not going to fold to that guy. And that happened when he was young, just a few years out of prison. During his union goon years. Long before he quit on his stool and made his splash in Lewiston.

 

Let me see the evidence other than Liston saying it or someone writing it without citing sources.

Yes, I believe policemen kept a close eye on the criminal who was in their town, probably along with all th eother criminals. I hope they’re keeping a close eye on the criminals in my town, lol.

IF Sonny Liston was treated differently, why was that? Other top black athletes of the day weren’t all ‘harassed’ all the time — but maybe that’s because they didn’t commit armed robbery, drive around drunk as a skunk, impersonate policemen and assault policemen.

What’s disproportionate here is Liston’s own behavior. If Hank Aaron or Bill Russell or Jim Brown got caught jay-walking, yeah, they’d probably get a pass. If the assaulted a police officer and took his gun? I don’t think so.

Sonny did not postpone the fight. Just as many other fighters have gone ahead with some injury or other. We judge them from how they deal with their injury, win or lose. Nothing happened in that fight which stopped him from throwing his left jab and hook, and often. Including up to the end of the round before he quit on his stool. So there is no question he COULD have continued — whether he won or lost, whether he was at his best or not, he could have continued trying.

You can also believe Sonny Liston himself or choose not to, but he later admitted he quit the second fight because Ali was crazy and he wanted no part of him. He said he didn’t get hit, which we know isn’t accurate, but he may have been using that as a euphemism for ‘didn’t get hit hard enough to end the fight’ but he instead rolled around on the canvas hoping he was counted out (and then everything got stupid after that with the restart and then stop).

So he showed heart in one fight early in his career. He did not show it when his championship was on the line or when he had a chance to regain it.

 

Are you suggesting that Palermo and Carbo controlled only Liston ? What about Jake La Motta ?
Floyd patterson was protected from gangsters by his insanely brave manager Cus D'Amato. Johansson ? I suspect that the Mafia didn't have too much influence in Sweden.
Muhammad Ali ? The Nation of Islam discouraged the Mafia from even thinking of getting
their hands on Ali.Joe Frazier and George Foreman ? Oh come on, these guys won Olympic gold medals.
Do you really think they would need any help to get their professional careers up and running ?

 

There is much about the man we don't know. He was secretive. He didn't want people poking into his affairs. Some of that menacing aura was aimed at frightening sportswriters so they wouldn't get too nosy. He had lots of private matters he didn't want exposed.

At the heart of his problems were two things: He had a tendency to do wrong and it was most evident when he drank. Geraldine Liston said once on camera that every time he got in trouble it happened when he was drinking. He was an unreformed lush and he never changed. Fame didn't change him. The spotlight didn't agree with him. He kept inciting trouble with the law when he was the No. 1 challenger and when he was champion. You talk about him being persecuted by cops. Yes, they used to follow him in groups. One of them said when he was confronted by police he always seemed to be surveying the odds should he decide to fight them. Liston and cops were natural enemies.

I will say that in Denver there was a bad cop, a rogue type, who loved to harass Liston and brag about it. He was an egomaniac named Buster Snider. You might want to research him.

 

It was only Sonny's 8th professional fight.You have to make allowances for that result.

 

He lacked "heart"...If you don't have "heart" in boxing...then what ever skills you do have...it doesn't mean a thing! If things don't go your way in the ring...and you say "F**k It...I QUIT"...then who cares about your jab...

 

Ive said this for yrs. There's was only one Ali.
No other heavyweight in history would've been as effective against Liston as Ali was ( Note, not saying no other heavyweights beat Liston, simply saying it would've been a much harder fight)
Ali had gifts not seen before or since.
Liston probably rules the heavyweight division until age finally caught up to him around 1969, if there's no Ali.

 

But Eddie Machen and Muhammad Ali are liars when they say there was foul play afoot in fights… Liston the Mafia cash cow would never resort to illegal means to win a fight to keep there cash flowing, silly talk ay Pat? Against Ali where Liston was defanged completely right before he quit it was all a coincidence really that Ali was temporarily blinded.

 

Not sure why people continue to spout this non-sense that's already been thoroughly debunked. The referee stated he'd checked Liston's gloves and found nothing. The-Journal-Herald-Thu-Feb-27-1964 hosted at ImgBB — ImgBB

For the love of God, do your research people.

 

Totally agree.