Is Stanley Ketchel underrated?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by BitPlayerVesti, Dec 19, 2018.


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  1. KuRuPT

    KuRuPT Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Very true, and even the Langford bout wasn't even a loss for him I believe.
     
    KuRuPT, Dec 20, 2018
    KuRuPT, Dec 20, 2018
    #31
  2. ray fritz

    ray fritz Active Member Full Member

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    Fleischer,rose,daniels,Nat LOubet all rate him #1 hard to argue they all saw him
     
    ray fritz, Dec 20, 2018
    ray fritz, Dec 20, 2018
    #32
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  3. louis54

    louis54 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    his recklessness i now understand given how aggressiveness was scored at that time...
     
    louis54, Dec 20, 2018
    louis54, Dec 20, 2018
    #33
  4. greynotsoold

    greynotsoold Boxing Addict

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    As an aside to the discussion... when I moved to Butte, Montana, in 2001, I met this guy that was a very well thought of local historian. He drove a cab from midnight to 8 am and sometimes I would ride with him just to listen to the stories he knew about Butte.

    Stanley Ketchel had many, if not most, of his fights in Butte before he was run out of town for vagrancy. The guy I met was very much into boxing and intended to write a book about Ketchel's years in Butte. He told me he had "a couple hundred hours" of tape recorded conversations with people that had known Ketchel when he lived here. The guy died about 9 or 10 years ago and I wonder what happened to those tapes. Talk about a gold mine.
     
    greynotsoold, Dec 21, 2018
    greynotsoold, Dec 21, 2018
    #34
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  5. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    If you want to talk about Kethel on film, it will be a no contest. He looks awful. And you know it.

    Langford won that fight and was likely holding back. But we know that too.

    Johnson toyed with Ketchel. Ketchel's performance was very poor outside of 2 landed punches that produced results.

    Papke was a peculiar fighter. He had good ability, but he did not like to train. On film he whips Ketchel.

    Hmmmm...one could say the best four fighters Ketches fought ALL beat him. And let's get real O'Brien was past it by the time he met Ketchel.

    Now, where do you rate Mickey Walker again at heavyweight? Top 50? I forget. If you want to talk about embarrassing...
     
    Mendoza, Dec 21, 2018
    Mendoza, Dec 21, 2018
    #35
  6. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    So you saying his corner used smelling salts before? He must have been hurt then prior to the KO.
     
    Mendoza, Dec 21, 2018
    Mendoza, Dec 21, 2018
    #36
  7. BitPlayerVesti

    BitPlayerVesti Boxing Drunkie Full Member

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    The people who said Ketchel looked great also said he looked awful in the Papke fight. It's meaningless.
     
    BitPlayerVesti, Dec 21, 2018
    BitPlayerVesti, Dec 21, 2018
    #37
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  8. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Straws---clutching.lol
     
    mcvey, Dec 21, 2018
    mcvey, Dec 21, 2018
    #38
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  9. Senya13

    Senya13 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I listed the newspaper decisions for this bout before. Added them to boxrec encyclopaedia for this bout, too. It is a newspaper draw.
     
    Senya13, Dec 21, 2018
    Senya13, Dec 21, 2018
    #39
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  10. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    No i don't. I would have indicated so if i did. I didn't want to talk about him on film. Ask me if you like.

    He was a fighter who was best at 154 fighting a heavyweight. What do you expect to learn? Please explain in detail what you would expect to learn from Hurd or Canelo fighting Usyk? What huge clues would you expect to gain from Canelo being beting up by Usyk?

    This, at least, is interesting. Please provide your sources for your claim that Papke "did not like to train". I am interested in the detail. I'm sure you have detailed primary sources. Nobody would make such a claim without them. SO please share them. I will admit - my primary sources, clearly wrong, have Papke training like an animal. A world class trainer before beating Ketchel. Publicly, repeatedly, training very, very hard. Let's have details of your sources for his "not" liking to train.

    Provide details.

    Hmmmmmm it's indisuptably the case. If you dare to fight ATG heavies as a middle that will happen.

    No, you've literally made that up.

    So, wrong again.
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2018
    McGrain, Dec 21, 2018
    McGrain, Dec 21, 2018
    #40
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  11. BitPlayerVesti

    BitPlayerVesti Boxing Drunkie Full Member

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    Johnson, he was stupidily outweighed.
    Langford, though it was a competitive ND, and seems considered a longer fight would've needed to happen to determine supremacy, and he was heavilly outweighed
    Papke, though he beat him three times, once by KO, though once controversially.

    Who next?
    Philidelphia Jack O'Brien, beat twice.
    Jack Twin Sullivan, beat

    Who is this fourth fighter?
     
    BitPlayerVesti, Dec 21, 2018
    BitPlayerVesti, Dec 21, 2018
    #41
  12. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    His film sucks. Wise move not going there.


    History is full of middles winning rounds vs heavyweights.


    This is known. Papke hated to train. There is a training film on Papke to view and when he's looks good. Klompton likes him so ask him for the particulars on his distain for training. Until then, you picked up something new.

    The best three fighters Ketchel meet in Johnson, Papke, and Langford beat him. You could argue the 4th best fighter he fought was Klaus and they drew. As I said before, O'brien was near his end when he met Ketchel.


    Are you saying you didn't rate Walker in your top 100 at heavyweight?
     
    Mendoza, Dec 22, 2018
    Mendoza, Dec 22, 2018
    #42
  13. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Didn't most feel Langford was the better? I've read Langford held back a little, which is a possibility.
     
    Mendoza, Dec 22, 2018
    Mendoza, Dec 22, 2018
    #43
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