Is Sugar Ray Leonard overrated?

Yeah.
I feel like Leonard would have been the "winner" anyway, even with an official loss (which would match my scorecard).

I mean, it adds to Leonard's legacy, even though I had Hagler winning slightly, and it does nothing much for Hagler (beating a man coming off a long layoff who wasn't ever a middleweight contender).

 

True. No matter what Hagler was going to get the short end of the stick. Losing to a non-middleweight who had fought once in five years doesn't look good, but if he had won then beating a non-middleweight who fought once in five years wasn't going to be some huge achievement. Its all about perception I suppose.

 

First of all, I don't actually even like Leonard. Any time spent on this forum over the last few years will tell you that. Second, now you're changing your argument, aren't you? Initially, it was whether or not he could make 147. Now you've softened it, to where you can supposedly find people saying 147 wasn't his best weight. Well which is it? That's two different arguments. A tenuous one in your second try as well, "Muppet."

Never mind. You've proven yourself incapable of a logical argument because you're too agenda ridden. :roll:

Next.

 

Just looked at Guerra's record he seems to have given quite a few draws.He was a judge at the Hagler v Minter fight but of course was not needed.

He judged Mamby v N****pa ,[no idea why this has been censored,] for the WBC Super Light title the other judges scores were 145-143 & 144-143, he went 145-146.
The Jones v McCrory draw the others went.114-116 115-115 ,he went 116-113 for Milton.
Davis v Rosario, the others went114-115, 113-117 he went 114-113.
Rocchigiani v Nunn they went 118-111. 115-113 he went 113-116!

 

Oh, I get you now. When I said that I give fighters more credit for moving up, you thought that I was just jocking Leonard. I wasn't. I don't really rate his win over Lalonde. I do have way more respect for him, Duran (especially), and even Hearns for moving up to fight Hagler though than I have for Hagler for beating them.

 

Nowhere in that video did he admit he lost the fight. He said entering the ring you know when it's going to be your night. He said entering the ring he felt it wasn't going to be his night. Fighters know it, he said.

He doesn't say anything about the official verdict. He was talking about the feeling he had BEFORE the fight. (And people who suffer a major loss tend to say 'I had a feeling something would go wrong' AFTER something goes wrong. Just like many dream they'll lose and they still go on to win. It's called pre-fight nerves.)

And how can you "cherry pick" a guy who just got the decision against you and who you have a rematch clause with?

People certainly read into things what they "want" to hear.

:verysad

On the official cards, if any two of the 19 EVEN ROUNDS scored were awarded to Leonard, he'd have retained his title. The fight was a toss-up.

 

I never liked Leonard. Thought he was too cute, flashy, and cautious. But he certainly is a great fighter. Let me be clear: he was a phenomenal athlete. I don't think that anyone could dispute that. My beef is that some people seem to unjustifiably inflate his greatness, so I can agree that he is overrated.

I think that Hearns was the better fighter (Leonard was so lucky to win the first fight, and you could see it in his face when he won; and as we all know, he lost the second fight, and he, himself, admits this). Duran exposed him (Once again lucked out in the second fight). And Hagler was better than them all (Leonard "beats" an over-the-hill Hagler after eluding him for years, though a detached retina is a justifiable yet very convenient reason for not fighting and losing to him earlier). His flashy style did for him exactly the opposite of what Sweet Pea's non-flashy style did for him.

 

The best technical fighter of the three was Leonard. He could block, slip, duck punches with the best of them. He could punch with either hand to head and body. Beautiful textbook jab, footwork on par with Ali and one of the fastest fighters I have ever seen. I say all this and I never cheered for him to win any of his oro fights....ever. Truth however is the truth.

 

I think Marvin Hagler was the perfect boxer-fighter, but these guys are so good it comes down to a matter of taste.

 

He was OBVIOUSLEY saying he knew he lost, He knew going in it was not his night, he has never said he won the fight. Are you not seeing body language, are you unable to pick up on cues, or understand what the guy was saying?

Second, HE did admit he cherry picked, and yes there was a rematch clause, but Sugar ray elected to push it as fast as he could because he planned to catch Duran out of shape.

Your beyond a normal conversation, You are illogical, and so very biased that even the fighters themselves could not tell it to your face without you disbelieving them.

It is painful to watch you fail.

 

Hagler was not the boxer Leonard was. Harder puncher yes but much slower, poorer footwork and he did not have Rays Defensive capabilities. All three were ATG fighters. Pound for pound Leonard had the better skill set.

 

Wait. What? Leonard elected to "push it fast?"

Stop regurgitating everything you hear. Their fight was pushed "fast" like Cassius Clay needed 10 minutes to have his torn glove replaced against Henry Cooper.

It's a "fantasy" that's been told so many times people now believe it.

Leonard didn't push anything "FAST."

There was FIVE MONTHS between the first Leonard-Duran fight and the second.

In 72 PRO FIGHTS, Roberto Duran NEVER had that much time off between fights. Five months WAS THE LONGEST INACTIVE PERIOD of Duran's career.

In fact, it was the longest inactive period OF LEONARD'S CAREER, too.

Five months was MORE TIME than either EVER had to prepare for a fight.

Somehow, over the years, the longest break in their ENTIRE CAREERS has become a "rush job" to cheat Duran.



Leonard, like his trainer Dundee, tended to repeat fiction until they actually believed what they were saying was true.

There was a rematch clause. BOTH fighters had more time than they ever had for ANY fight in their careers to train for it, and Duran quit.

That's what happened. You're the one who should be embarrassed. :hi:

Boxing history is full of made-up stories that get repeated over and over. This is one of those made-up stories.

Any time you want to stop spreading the lie, feel free.

 

Did you not hear what Leonard said?

That's not made up. He knew Duran would be out of shape on fight night. That's not a story, that's not a fantasy.. that was a tactic.. A tactic a smart fighter would use ( Leonard was)

But he knew Duran would not be 100%. THEN after No mas he refused to give a rematch... until..... Many years after, .....Duran wanted to destroy him again after No Mas, and desperately wanted him back in the ring... Leonard was not interested.

Duran had enough time to get it together, but he indulged to long, just like Leonard thought he would.

Duran was not 100% on No mas night, Leonard lost in the first fight and caught Duran out of shape the 2nd.... That's history, not made up stories, with rose colored glasses on.

 

I've heard what Leonard said. I heard Dundee tell his Cooper story forever. I've listened to a lot of fighters, trainers and managers repeat blatant fantasy over and over until they believe it's true.

But, like the 19 even rounds scored in their first fight which some on here tend to ignore when claiming Duran "dominated," nobody rushed anyone back to fight the rematch.

There was a rematch clause. Both fighters had more time to prepare for that rematch than for ANY fight in either of their careers.

Since the rematch, Leonard has bragged that Duran had a psychological edge before the first fight, so he "tricked" Duran by rushing him back. I don't know why he says it, because he didn't rush him back.

He also said Duran tended to blow up after fights. Well, for 72 fights before that, if Duran BLEW UP, he sure as hell made weight and fought fine in FAR LESS than five months. And he made weight and fought fine in the Leonard rematch, TOO.

As someone said earlier, Leonard talks a lot of nonsense. He always has. He's not the brightest guy. But he has a huge ego. And if he thinks saying "he rushed" Duran back makes him sound smart, and makes it sound like he was in control, that's great for him.

But he didn't rush anyone back.

For those two, FIVE MONTHS OFF was a luxury. And both guys showed up in shape and both fought like they were in great shape. Duran just quit.

That's what happened. Sorry.

 

Thank you.