Is Sugar Ray Leonard the G.O.A.T@ 147

No he wouldn't. I love Benitez but he wouldn't beat floyd. How would Benitez "comfortably" beat floyd at 147?

 

A good argument could be made that Armstrong on his best night could fight Leonard like Duran did in Montreal. But I think SRL may have been able to win fights between them more often than not. I have SRL no. 2 after SRR. Hearns and Armstrong right behind.

Napoles I think was not so much overrated (because he's somewhat forgotten and therefore probably underrated) but I don't think he was strong enough to handle the top 4 mentioned above. He was a great boxer though and completely outfought Emile Griffith and Curtis Cokes, both of whom were excellent boxers themselves.

 

He was quite competitive with Leonard so that means he would definitely have a good chance against PBF.

 

Even with SRR's boxing skills he would not destroy PBF. But he was a hellacious puncher and I think would have KO'd him at some point, at least in one of their 4 or 5 fights they would have.

 

His the best i've seen in my lifetime. Although it hurt me when he beat Hagler.
The other Sugar is just too sweet for this one.

 

Option 2 and 3/4 are the same

 

lol at Floyd standing a chance in his best147 form against real ATG welters that were competitive at light heavyweight....

PBF is a great fighter, but let's not match him up against guys that were dominant in genuinely competitive WW divisions. Ross, Napoles, Gavilan, Robinson, Leonard, Hearns and a few others would pack his **** in. Period.

 

As far as resume/accomplishments go.....NOOOOOO!!!!!! Not even close!!!!

By that criteria I would say he fits in the top 5 or so off of the top of my head.

If you want to make this a case of hypothetical greatness their can never....NEVER....be a conclusive point of proof! By that scenerio SRR would likely be a consensus #1 even in that scenerio. I guess you could make a case for him between 2 and 5 or so in that case, but hypothetical can not really be gauged accurately let alone proven, due to personal preferances, biases and our personal filtering systems.

For me he is likely lower top 5 with a case for the 3-6 spots.

 

You know what mate when it comes to fighters like SRR + SRL numbers don't even need to come into it. Because just seeing how special these men were and against the opposition they fought, is enough to rank them were they belong. Your talking about fighters that were the complete article and could do everything and had everything.
Nit picking over they resume's is'nt neccessary.

 

Nitpicking (as you call it) over resume is much more accurate in that accomplishments can be proven to a very large degree...while there is no factual evidence for hypothetical! Everyone has an opinion on how SRL/SRR would fare against Armstrong, Ross, Gavilan, Napoles, basilio, Walker etc.....But it cannot be proven even to a small degree. Personally I don't think he would fare as well as SRL's larger fan base does, but it cannot be proven at all!

Hence I like resume' because it gives me fact not opinion!

 

Yeah i get what you mean mate. But my point is sometimes you just judge what is in front of you, and with all the footage of SRR and with Ray being from the modern era then me personally i judge what i have witnessed.
I can't personally rate fighters i can only judge on paper. All i can do with those is accept that they must of been very special fighters.
But i don't think there is much dispute that SRR is the no1 of all time, and like i say SRL is the best i have seen in my lifetime.

 

I get where you are coming from as well! I do it all the time personally, trying to study different boxers and figure out who has the talent, fundementals and stylistic advantages in hypothetical scenerios. But even those who are the biggest expers (I certainly do not include myself) have flaws and there will always be intangibles we can not measure...Thats why Schmeling can beat Louis, Douglas can beat Tyson, Rahman can beat Lewis, Tarver can beat RJJ etc....It is fun and I enjoy it, but we cannot ever end an argument decisively.

 

This should by no means be the be all and end all of 147 history but Bscene produced this list of the Greatest 147 fighters of all time:

10. Jimmy MacLarnin.
9. Jack Britton.
8. Barney Ross.
7. Emile Griffith.
6. Jose Napoles.
5. Kid Gavlian.
4. Joe Walcott.
3. Ray Charles Leonard.
2. Henry Armstrong.
1. Ray Robinson.

As I say, that list shouldn't be the be all and end all as lists are personal business. It does however give one some perspective in this entire argument of rating the great Ray Leonard. I personally had no idea that "Barbadoes" Joe Walcott was a welterweight, I knew of him but didn't know anything about him. Same with Jack Britton and McLarnin. It certainly gives me something to think about as I'm currently stuck in Napolesmania and didn't know that people could consider Gavlian, Walcott and Armstrong better, or Griffith, Ross and Britton were so close to him. I think Rumsfeld also made a list with the help of Classic.

...

This list is a pile of **** though, it doesn't have the Golden Boy in the top ten let alone the top two where he belongs.

 

Hearns KO1 anybody at 147 that ever lived. **** you if you disagree. And don't bring up real fights, they are meaningless.

 

ESB Classic section tackled this issue 2 years ago....here are their results:

1. 1049 Sugar Ray Robinson (41)
2. 524 Sugar Ray Leonard
3. 322 Henry Armstrong
4. 301 Jose Napoles
5. 275 Kid Gavilan
6. 207 Emile Griffith
7. 174 Tommy Hearns
8. 129 Luis Rodriguez
9. 111 Barbados Joe Walcott
10. 87 Mickey Walker
11. 66 Roberto Duran
12. 53 Carmen Basillo
13. 47 Charles Burley
14. 42 Jack Britton
15. 39 Tommy Ryan (1)
16. 26 Sam Langford (1)
17. 25 Pernell Whitaker
18. 24 Don Curry
19. 21 Jimmy Mclarnin
20. 19 [tie] Felix Trinidad
20. 19 [tie] Barney Ross
22. 15 Peter Jackson
23. 12 Ted Kid Lewis
24. 11 Oscar De La Hoya
25. 10 [tie] Jack Dempsey
25. 10 [tie] Pipino Cuevas
27. 8 Miguel Cotto
28. 7 Sugar Shane Mosley
29. 5 [tie] Wilfred Benitez
29. 5 [tie] Carlos Palomino
31. 4 Marlon Sterling
32. 3 Aaron Davis
33. 2 [tie] Isufu Quartey
33. 2 [tie] Jose Lopez
35. 1 Floyd Mayweather Jr.

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