Is sugar Ray Leonard the greatest welterweight?

Leonard had plenty of power on his extended combinations(not as much as Robinson though).He did do the odd shoeshining 5-10 punch combo but that was about 10% of his arsenal.

 

What you're saying here is that you watched Leonard-Hagler. You do realize that he had other fights?

He didn't have the power Robinson did, but that's still some way from shoeshining.

 

Leonard is one of the most disliked fighters on this forum, comfortably.

 

Help me find the popcorn.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wpcznXrArR0[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usugXyL_ApE[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEZdhbyKw2U[/ame]

 

Yeah, but coming off as completely ignorant just in order to slate him? That would take some dislike on my part.

 

Yup, George Costner, a rated contender from 1945-51 who peaked out at #1, started calling himself Sugar.

February 14, 1945: Ray Robinson KO1 George Costner

March 22, 1950: Ray Robinson KO1 George Costner

Also pretty funny to see Robinson so content to circle and play matador to Graziano's bull for 2+ rounds... Until a right hand caught him and put him on his knee. Graziano doesn't last the round, and his mouthpiece ends up in the tenth row.

That's Power. And more difficult than most of us will ever know to do to another fighter at that level. Ask Magna how easy it is.

 

He knocked the **** out of those guys. I watched the Lalonde beating live in 1988 at a friend's house who had the fight. I viewed it again a few weeks later on HBO and have always stopped what I was doing to watch highlights from that fight. Leonard wasn't throwing flashy flurries in that one. Those were slugging shots that he was hammering Lalonde with towards the end, and a very strong light heavyweight fighter whom he sent to the canvas..

 

Andy Price met the Firing Squad too.

 

Price was not bad either, he'd learned not to slug it out with big punchers after being blasted by Rudy Barro, and had gone on to beat Cuevas on points (did he beat Palomino as well?! That's not available if he did, can't be arsed to check).

Leonard tore him to pieces inside a round!

 

Yeah, that's another thing that seems to be a point of contention for Leonard detractors: "He was handed everything".

No, not really. He earned his Gold Medal and had infectious skills; not his problem networks took to him. He had cleared out almost half the welterweight division (Hearns worked the other half) before he even got a shot at the title. So on another note and on the flip side, he was plenty ready for Roberto Duran the first time. The problem with ESB is that people cannot seem to appreciate both without showing a fairly blatant agenda. I'm one of those who thinks Montreal was about as great of a win as there's ever been. Leonard has quite a lot to do with that.

 

Nice post, I agree.

 

Not me Bok, he's always in my Top 3 - both greatness and H2H. I love all great welters.. SRR, SRL, Keed, Mantequilla, Tommy, Mickey, LMR, Basilio, you name it.

 

He's not exactly your favorite character either though if I'm not mistaken? You always seem to be able to put that aside. Some people can't... But there are quite a few Duran and Hagler fanatics who feel SRL suckered them to unforgivable levels. Always seem to find most Leonard bashers are enormous fans of one or both, and lived through the era. Like duranimal or Clinton.

 

I try to put it aside!

 

You wouldn't rate him at all P4P if he never beat Kalule? :yep

One thing I guess Leonard has going for him in regards to 147 legacy (already kind of mentioned) is that people tend to think Benitez, Duran and Hearns are the only guys he bested at the weight. Without a doubt, they are the meal ticket and primary reason for it, but he beat a fairly good number of contenders too even with as few fights as he had. It's thin compared to some others, but not that thin.