Is the current Heavyweight Division that bad?

While Ill agree that technology in nutrition and health has improved, it still should allow a younger or as closely talented fighter to outshine the older guy. The fact that the fights are so one sided is proof the talent just isnt there.
Take that into consideration and then add to that how and why Vitali broke down in the Lewis fight, and it just makes the era look really bad, meaning Vitali wasnt even good enough to beat a faded Lewis yet he completely dominates all the contenders who always look to be performing poorly.

 

Vitali is an exceptional 38 year old fighter who's benefited from modern surgery, a four year lay off, and a cautious but effective "hit and don't get hit" approach.

Seamus, you are correct about football players not being more protected. I believe they have the highest rate of head/brain injuries than any other sport...including boxing.

 

Amen.

 

So because Vitali got cut up by Lewis any fighter he beats should be automatically written off as trash. Poor Vitali. Got to love this board.

atsch

Faded or not, Lewis did things in that fight that not many fighters are capable of at their absolute best...the survival tactics, the adjustments, and the "dirty boxing/clinching" against a man of Vitali's size was some great stuff, I don't care how fat he was.

Someone like Kevin Johnson is not a great complete fighter by any means but the complete dismissal of his obvious defensive talents by numerous posters around these parts suggests either a bias or simply no eye for boxing ability.

 

Why do people jump to conclusions/assumptions?

Got to love this board.

atsch

Nobody said he is "trash". He's clearly a very good fighter. But the scenario lefthook describes does show a decrease in talent level.

 

I'm talking in comparison to the early 80's and before. Not 1998. Sorry, I should have better clarified that.

And sure, NFL QB is different. Nothing is exactly the same as boxing, except boxing. But the same trend is very apparent in the explosive events in track and field over the last 20-30 years. Jonathan Edwards, gray-haired triple jumper, who set the World Record and was still an international force when he retired in his mid-30's. Stefan Holm, high jumper, highly competitive into his 30's, equaled his best of 2.37 at age 33 or 34. Mike Powell, world record holder in the long jump, comes out of retirement at 38 and goes over 27 feet. These performances would have been unthought of 30 years ago. And these events only represent explosive, very little accumulated technique like boxing.

 

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I think the division is **** poor, two standouts, who won't fight each other, and an exciting but unproven ex cruiser,
confirms this imo.
When was a last time you were thrilled by a Heavyweight title fight?

 

At Mongoose,
Its a simple explanation of how I came to that conclusion without going into a massive explanation. I was going to say I dont mean to use one fight as a baromoter to judge a champions era, but there is plenty more to it, if you look further into his opponents and their ability and accomplishments.
I respect Vitali and I think he is a good fighter, but his level of opposition is what's making him look so dominant.
Just using Kevin Johnson as an example, having defensive skills is meaningless, when you have zero offense. Do you really believe Johnson was prepared to fight for the title based off of that performance and who he had faced prior?
You have to look at a fighters resume and say to yourself what fighters stick out as having real pedigree in the division? Who has he beaten thats actually accomplished something in the sport or been brought along and tested properly to be a worthy challenger?
Having an undefeated record these days is meaningless. You look at Johnson's record, and the name that sticks out at you is a shot Bruce Seldon. The rest is nothing, so are we applauding Johnson for making it 12 rounds because of his defensive skills? Was that being defensive while trying to win or being defensive to survive and say I went 12 with the champ?
It is my opinion Vitali is a good fighter not a great one, I see flaws in his game and several flaws in most of his opponents, and realistically I think he fits nicely into the mix of the title challengers in the mid 90's, but would always be a step below Lewis, especially the one of the late 90's.

Im not too high on Lewis' opposition through the second half of the 90's, but when you compare it to Vitali's, its still a step up, in fact many of Vitali's wins would be categorized against the second tier contenders of the mid to late 90's. Herbie Hide, Obed Sullivan, Larry Donald, Vaughn Bean, Corrie Sanders, Kirk Johnson, those level guys are the guys that couldnt make it past the Tua, Rahman, Golota, Grant level guys that fought Lewis and for the most part failed miserably.

 

I allways thought that a man being given a chance to fight for what used to be regarded as "The Richest Prize In Sports", should at least try and win it.
Did you see ONE round in the Johnson Klitschko fight that convinced you that Johnson was there to do more than actually just survive?
I would have held up his purse.
Johnson is "not a complete fighter" ? Based on the evidence of that bout,[I wont call it a fight],he is not a fighter at all.

 

Some fighters are great older fighters. Vitali is one of them. While modern medicine has no doubt extended the careers of athletes today, the man still has to be willing and in year round shape in his mid to late 30's. to stay on top...otherwise muscle reflex memory will die. As one ages, it becomes harder and harder to stay in world class shape.

 

Big mistep Seamus. The NFL has changed. I bet if you talked to those 50+ year old ex NFL Qb's they will talk about how "soft" the QB's are these days and how protected they are. If you breathe on them wrong you'll get a penalty. Times are much much more different. The QB position, and NFL players health in general is more of a concern (Concussion issue story this year).

 

Now I can agree with this. I know we see eye to eye on Lewis anyway and I've always maintained Vitali's resume is just solid.

However, I think Vitali's dominance can also be credited to his remarkable consistency. 90s Champions like Moorer, Bowe, and Holyfield were often guilty of fighting down to the level of their fringe contenders, Vitali does not. It goes both ways.

Kevin Johnson was not a contender, he's a prospect with a difficult style whom Haye "ducked" to fight Barrett, and Vitali used to stay busy. I'll go into that in another post.

 

Johnson is an incredibly limited offensive fighter and this was well known going into the fight. He has a good jab, a double jab, a jab to the body...you get the point. He had a little success early but Vitali adjusted and took it out of the equation. If Johnson can't jab, he doesn't have an offense. I would say he came to win the fight but after several rounds of discouragement, gave up and concentrated on surviving. I don't think he should be applauded for such an effort, but the defensive talent was there, and Vitali should be credited for doing what he could against a frustrating opponent. He showed some limitations as an aggressor but more creativity than we would expect...he went to the body more frequently than usual and pulled off some intresting feints and angles.