Is the lineage of the men who shook each other's hands back to John L. Sullivan recoverable?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by cross_trainer, Nov 26, 2021.

Is it still possible to shake the hand of the man who shook a lineage of hands back to Sullivan's?

  1. Yes.

    100.0%
  2. No.

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  3. Possibly, but only if we are lucky.

    0 vote(s)
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  1. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Bergeron Avatar Club Full Member

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    I'm sure you're all familiar with how, once upon a time, people supposedly invited each other to "shake the hand of the man who shook the hand of John L. Sullivan."

    Given the historical research tools currently at our disposal, how would you fancy our chances of tracing at least one lineage of handshakes from Sullivan's era up to the present day?
     
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  2. richdanahuff

    richdanahuff Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Being the man who beat the man IS recoverable I just dont think in this era of money grabbing anyone cares anymore
     
  3. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Bergeron Avatar Club Full Member

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    While I agree, my lineage question is somewhat different and less strenuous.
     
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  4. JWSoats

    JWSoats Active Member Full Member

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    Chances are excellent - our own Burt Bienstock on ESB as a young man once shook the hand of former heavyweight champion Jack Johnson. There is a photo of Johnson shaking hands with John L around the time of the Jeffries fight.
     
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  5. Pugguy

    Pugguy Active Member Full Member

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    Do we allow for COVID, like say the elbow that touched the elbow (repeat, repeat) that ultimately touched the elbow attached to the arm that held the hand that shook……etc?

    OR, do we ignore and not recognise the moratorium on hand shakes (the new normal, temporary hopefully) and only bridge the lineage via the last officially recognised germ carrying hand shake to the next?

    Apparently Greb shook the hand that shook the…..blah, blah, so we might’ve started there but since he apparently didn’t exist that starting platform is clearly not an option.

    Speaking of degrees of separation, years ago I read a nice lighthearted analogy (via the old A beat B who beat C, therefor A beats C logic) that took it down the line from Pone Kingpetch to Sonny Liston I think, which rationalised The Bear being “logically” beaten by his much smaller counterpart.
     
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  6. Saintpat

    Saintpat Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I’ve shaken hands with Larry Holmes, who shook hands with Muhammad Ali, who shook hands with Joe Louis, who knocked Primo Carnera TFO, so basically it’s kind of like I knocked out Primo right?
     
  7. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Bergeron Avatar Club Full Member

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    That is exactly how that works, yes. I suggest you contact Boxrec to revise Primo's record accordingly.
     
  8. Saintpat

    Saintpat Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Carnera never laid a glove on me either.
     
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  9. Pugguy

    Pugguy Active Member Full Member

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    Brilliant conflation!

    Given the open palm theme of hand shakes I might’ve said you could brag that you b*tch slapped Da Preem, even better than Baer back handing him.

    That may only get you mention in the annals of Slapping Contest Legends however (a recently addressed train wreck “sport”).

    But what the hell? A clean KO is much of a muchness and hardly stretching the sound reasoning already established thus far.

    I’ll be keeping my eye out for that due revising of Primo’s record and also for the newly created @Saintpat 1–0-0, 1 KO record with the scalp of a former HW Champ to go.

    Meanwhile, from above, with his own 299 recorded bouts in tow, Harry Greb fighting for his own mere existence, looks down shaking his head.
     
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  10. Saintpat

    Saintpat Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I did spar one round with Pinklon Thomas.

    So I got hit by the jab that hit Mike Weaver who hit Larry Holmes who hit Muhammad Ali who hit Archie Moore who hit Rocky Marciano so basically I took the Rock’s best shot too.
     
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  11. Pugguy

    Pugguy Active Member Full Member

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    This just keeps unpacking to your advantage. With this new, further information, I see you approaching worthy mention on the next Great Fighters who are often underrated/overlooked thread.
     
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  12. Journeyman92

    Journeyman92 52-0 banned Full Member

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    You may inherit there wins but you also inherit every brutal KO they and the people they shook hands with suffered. Goodnight sweet prince.
    SaintPat:
    [media]oRMvjv70FRw[/media]
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2021
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  13. SolomonDeedes

    SolomonDeedes Active Member Full Member

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    Sullivan shook hands with Jim Corbett. Corbett shook hands with Max Schmeling. Schmeling shook hands with both Klitschkos. Done.
     
  14. janitor

    janitor Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    There are probably a hundred ways to do it.
     
  15. Bukkake

    Bukkake Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Yeah, an almost endless number of ways... with thousands of possible detours.

    Just like if you wanted to connect Sullivan with (for example) Fury through common opponents. You can pretty much include as many boxers as you want, in such a chain.
     
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