Is there a chance that Hagler is just a little overrated these days?

Great post, Greg. It prompted me to look up a post I made a few years back looking at Robinson’s middleweight record, including pre-title fights whilst nominally a welterweight.
We have different numbers, probably just because the time period I split things up across was slightly different from yours but I drew a similar conclusion to you, that Robinson’s extensive record at middleweight should see him securely in the top 4 along with Greb, Monzon and Hagler.

 

Thanks Jel, much appreciated, top post yourself.

Those numbers are close enough to mine and the relatively small discrepancy could be caused by us using different weight limits (in non title fights, I included any fight contested between 151 and 164lbs as a MW contest, the heavier man determining the weight at which the fight is contested) and/or there may have been a few of Ray's earlier fights I couldn't fight weights for and so made a call as the most likely weight division they were contested in.

 

Hagler was tough, strong and conditioned with a solid chin. However what he lacked was the ability to adapt, I put him in the lower top ten middleweight all-time. His biggest victories were over Hearns and Duran 2 guys coming up in weight way up for Duran, and then he blew it against Leonard. A solid fighter but much more physical than cerebral.

 

I think the above sells Hagler a bit short. He was more than just a physical force.

Attempting to downgrade victories over pound-for-pound greats such as Hearns and Duran is also a little unfair. Both went on to win Middleweight titles.

Duran was an established Light Middleweight by the time he fought Hagler and would later beat a bigger Middleweight in Barkley. Hearns went on to even higher weight divisions, winning Super Middleweight and Light Heavyweight titles.

A slowed-up Hagler lost one of the most hotly disputed decisions in history, to this day, against one of the greatest boxers of all time in Leonard. Hardly an indictment. This bout also flies in the face of your assertion that Hagler was unable to adapt since there is no clearer example of Hagler adapting to shift the momentum, during this contest.

I don't think a boxer, generally seen as a cautious boxer-puncher like Hagler who, in the main, stood off his opponents looking for gaps in their defenses, combining upper-body feints, head-movement, an elite jab, world class footwork, trap-setting, switch-hitting and superb timing from both stances to outmaneuver, herd and breakdown his opponents, could be considered anything but cerebral.

 

Briscoe was 35 and had lost 2 of his last 4 fights.He wasn't the guy who gave Monzon trouble.

 

Great post Machine.
Thank you.
In my opnion Hagler was the best middleweight in history.
Though I do believe he could be taken out his game by
certain highly skilled opponents, with great counter
punching abilities and patience.
But most ATG middleweights didn't fit that criteria.

 

I think Hagler won the most overrated fight in the history of boxing. I'm not saying Hagler - Hearns was a bad fight, but it was nowhere near as good or exciting as a lot of people make out.

 

My question for you is this - did you watch it unfold in real time?

 

No. I get what you're saying, but it doesn't change my view of the fight. I will be uploading a middleweight contest that I think is much more exciting, and you're welcome to make a comparison.

 

One could find a great great match between two low level clubfighters seesawing back and forth in a real action fest but a lot of components go into a great fight. Watching it years later with the result signed, sealed and delivered is incredibly sterile vs seeing the top two P4P fighters in the world go at it like absolute cats and dogs.....seeing a super fight actually live up to its billing with two guys totally eschewing the basics and going at it on a completely primal level until one was beaten into extremely involuntary submission.

It's not just about the action.

 

And I get that, too. I just think it was nowhere near as good as the commentators were making it out to be. For a comparison, lets go back to the fight when Hagler won the title from Alan Minter. Hagler gets wobbled in the first round and from that point on his head is constantly in Minter's face. Minter cuts up and gets wild and desperate. The fight is stopped in the third round. The crowd goes ballistic because between them they saw all the headbutts from Hagler, and the ring is showered with bottles and glasses. That was a more exciting fight than Hagler - Hearns as far as I'm concerned. And if I watch it today, it's still more exciting.

 

The commentators are actually making it out to be so good because of all the factors i'm speaking of. Those factors cannot be replaced....the star quality, meshing of two styles and genuine animosity between the two combatants was obscene. On top of this both came into the bout in top form with Hearns being in the best form of his career. Hagler hadn't been beaten in almost a decade.

I know what you are talking about but what i say also stands tall IMO. The sheer excitement and anticipation leading into this match was top shelf.

 

I sometimes look back on old fights and documentaries on Marvin Hagler on YouTube and seeing how he was especially as a young prospect and contender, I forget just how good a fighter he was. If anything I think people underrate him nowadays rather then he being overrated.

 

Hagler was in a great era, that helps.

It's hard to compare ATG's. He could mix it with anyone given his toughness and ability.

 

I don't know what fight you watched, but Hagler wasn't wobbled by Minter at any time during that
fight. Also, Minter caused most of those head butts by cupping Hagler behind the head with his gloves, and pulling
him in. A defensive manuever that can backfire, especially when fighting a shorter opponent.
The crowd went ballistic because their man lost.... And loss convincingly .
I won't get into the reasons for the crowds behavior. It speaks for itself.
May have something to do with Minter's comments before the fight of
"He won't lose the championship to a black man".
Hagler said he will address the comments in the ring at Wembley.
That's what he did. Spectacularly.