With all the dispute over who is lineal in the heavy weight division, when was the last unbroken lineage? And what weight and who can actually genuinely claim to be the last of the lineal champions? With the only criteria being they beat the man who beat the man? I have no idea myself like.Respect
Exactly. There's no argument for a lineal champion, there hasn't been one for so long it's impossible to justify calling yourself or calling someone lineal.Respect
I don't know tbf but what I think it is the man who beat the man,if that man retires or vacates/the next two top ranked fighters fight to establish a new lineage. If this is right the lineage lineage was broke along time ago at heavy weight.
Tunney was the lineal champ, and in theory always will be the lineal champion as of course he never lost the championship, retiring while still champion, never being tempted to make a comeback.
Its ridiculous isn't it, so let's say when he retired the next two top ranked fighters faught each other,and a new lineage was started what happened when a new organization started up?
This is better asked in classic, but I really doubt it. All it takes to break a lineage is for one guy to retire on top. And this is why I'm not a fan of the whole thing, in fact I think it's utterly worthless. Because once the lineage is broken, everyone has their own rules for what constitutes a new lineal champ.. E.g. Wlad - he never beat the man to beat the man, but he WAS the man at the time, at the same time he never was undisputed. So was he a lineal champ or not? It's completely subjective and inarguable. What I also don't like, is how someone can claim to be "the man" solely based on being lineal. I know that's what it's for but I think it's outdated to use this logic in today's game. Like Stevenson, nobody actually thought he was the man when him and Kovalev were the best LHWs. Kovalev was fighting the relevant opponents, he was holding majority of the titles. Yet Stevenson was somehow "the man to beat" because of this garbage concept. Same with Tyson Fury. AJ and Wilder were cleaning up the division they own all the belts. Comes in Tyson Fury after 3 years of inactivity, fights a couple of bums, "I'm still the lineal champ guys!". So what are you a champ in perpetuity until retirement? That's complete nonsense. And what if say he got beat by Seferi? So Seferi is the new man of the division? Wouldn't that be hilarious.
Bang on lineal can only work if you hold all the belts otherwise you got 4/5 lineal champions potentially, I don’t know where it came from or how long it’s been going but it’s stupid. My guess would be it was a way for an injured champion to return and fight for his belt, while keeping the belt relevant, which could only ever work having one champion.
The only current one I think would be Usyk without any real questions. He beat the other champions who beat the champions before him. WBC Usyk > Breidis (For WBC) > Huck (vacant title left by Bellew) Usyk > Bellew > Makabu for vacant WBC and also over unbeaten former Cruiser Haye (albeit at Heavy) WBC traces back to Haye, after he vacated it went to Fragomeni. Lineally that would then trace to no one cause Grachev never fought at Cruiser limit again but could. Trace it to Andre Ward in that loses at LHW go: Ward > Rodriguez > Grachev > Erdei > Fragomeni IBF Usyk > Gassiev > Lebedev (for IBF) > Ramirez Ramirez won vacant title from Hernandez who retired undefeated as champion. WBA Usyk > Gassiev > Dorticos (vacated by Lebedev) Lebedev picked up vacant title when Guillermo Jones had been inactive too long to defend It. Jones beat Lebedev on returning but was turned to NC due to Ped failure. Jones was upgraded. To champions after Haye vacated. WBO Usyk > Glowacki (For WBO) > Huck > Ramirez (picked up title when Haye vacated) So essentially Usyk has defeated three champions who trace back to Haye and one who traces back to Hernandez. However he beat the man who beat Haye as well (though at a different weight - can't count Wlad as he's never been able to fight at Heavy). Hernandez title reverts back to Braithwaite who was th holder before him. Macaraneli also beat Braithwelaite en route to passing his title onto Haye so the lineage conisides at Haye. Mormick also defeated Bell who was lineal IBF at time so clears that line of lineage up. I can't be arsed to trace back from Haye as the titles were vacated constantly before him as people used the weight as a stepping stone to heavy. So essentially the only two ways you can argue he isn't is through either Andre Ward who has never ever fought at the weight or through Guillermo Jones who has retired and whose claim rests on a fight he was later disqualified for doping.
Quality knowledge man it’s too late for me to follow that but will read it properly in the morning. Class man appreciate it man
Agree completely with what you're saying. The lineal moniker can't always be relevant, because it fails to achieve what it's supposed to. Fury being lineal after he beats Wlad - 100% right. Fury coming back and being one of three guys who might be the man in the division - he is not the lineal, as far as I'm concerned. But I'd be happy to concede neither of the other two can be lineal without adding him to their CV. You are the lineal when you are the man. So long as you are active, fighting top opposition and not avoiding a clear contender to being 'the man' then you keep your lineal status.
