Is there anyone out there who still doubts Pacquiao is the best fighter in the world?

Decebal · Jun 29, 2008

Amsterdam said:

Calzaghe and JMM have performed at the same level but nobody higher recently, so then we have to rate on performance level, I guess JMM is the P4P #1.:nut
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So, JMM and Calzaghe have consistently performed at the same high level Pacquiao has performed at, but JMM has performed higher (??)

The self-contradiction aside, it is interesting that for once you do equate the level of performance with the p4p scale. And yet you admit Pacquiao is p4p No. 1 whilst you do not accept that he has performed consistently at a higher level than everyone else.:huh

Then, you say:

Amsterdam said:

No, it doesn't work that way. We don't know who the best is yet, but it's not a 1 dimensional fighter who's biggest win recently was nothing other than a paper win, where he scored a KD and made it competitive.
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In the poll above you have voted for the option: "Pacquiao is not the best fighter in the world." You repeat that claim, above. You also say you don't know who the best is YET. Again, leaving the contradiction aside, who would you say was the best fighter in the world, since you say it's not Pacquioa (it must be someone else), and why couldn't a one dimensional fighter be the best fighter in the world?

Morrissey · Jun 29, 2008

TheH1tMan said:

Hmmm, I think you are overlooking many aspects here, and being far too dismissive of Calzaghe.

If we are honest the divisions that Pac fights in are far less contested than the divisions Calzaghe is fighting in. While there is the occasional caucasian or black fighter small enough to fight in these divisions, Pac has basically created his name fighting latinos and asians. You could (if you wanted to be a little extreme) claim that his belts could be called the 'Latino-Asian championships' in somewhat the same way that 'World Baseball League' could really be called 'American Baseball League'.
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atsch

Amsterdam · Jun 29, 2008

So, JMM and Calzaghe have consistently performed at the same high level Pacquiao has performed at, but JMM has performed higher (??)
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If you consider defeating Pac higher than anything Calzaghe has done recently, certainly. I felt he beat Pac, but we won't get anywhere with this due to the official ruling.

The self-contradiction aside, it is interesting that for once you do equate the level of performance with the p4p scale. And yet you admit Pacquiao is p4p No. 1 whilst you do not accept that he has performed consistently at a higher level than everyone else.:huh
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There is no self contradiction, why don't you read the post, I said 'perhaps JMM performed higher', note the word 'perhaps', not that I leave P4P #1 vacant.

Then, you say:

In the poll above you have voted for the option: "Pacquiao is not the best fighter in the world." You repeat that claim, above. You also say you don't know who the best is YET. Again, leaving the contradiction aside, who would you say was the best fighter in the world, since you say it's not Pacquioa (it must be someone else),
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I refuse to name who the best is yet, did you not understand that Dec? I don't know who the best is yet, there are a lot of contenders for that ranking, which has nothing to do with accomplishment from the standpoint of which I am stating it.

What I know, from not just recent performance, but the last 5 years, is that it's clearly not 1 dimensional Pac, seeing that he clearly lost to JMM, but got the paper decision.

and why couldn't a one dimensional fighter be the best fighter in the world?
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Do I actually need to explain this? Think about this for a second and then reflect the entire post I made without bias towards Pac.

Amsterdam · Jun 29, 2008

TheH1tMan said:

OK, thanks feller. This is an aspect that is often overlooked by many when comparing divisions in order to make p4p.

In general the best curling players or the best badminton players look more dominant than the best football players. The best squash players for instance has gone from one person who was suppreme for many years onto another who was suppreme for many years. The world's best pole vaulter - bubka was sovereign for a decade or more etc. etc. The best footballer - well, hardly anyone has been voted best footballer three years in a row. As such, it is far harder to be dominant (and to seem dominant) when there are more people in the competition.

If we distribute all the participants in a sport on a normal distribution curve - we will see that with for example 5 players in the sport the space between the best and the next best is huge. As we continue to plot dots (participators) on the curve the distance between them all will be smaller and smaller. And so will of course the distance between the best and the next best. It is logic that the football (or soccer to Americans) will be packed with dots that will be standing absolutely packed next to each other. In sports such as curling the space will be much wider - and statistically the best curling player should appear more dominant that the best football player.

If we didnt know the huge difference in the popularity of these two sports, and we saw the two sports - most people would logically assume that the best curling player was a better athlete than the best football player - simply because he won more convincingly in his sport.

However, we of course know that it is critical that we take this very important information into consideration when judging the sportsmen. Because someone seems dominant in their sport (or in their division) we should not assume that they are better. It is always easier too look good when not pushed to the limit. Now, just one more thing... remember that the distance between no. 2 and no. 3 will also be wider in curling than boxing. As such, no. 2 in curling will also look more dominant than no. 2 in football. This further reinforces the idea that no. 1 is really good. 'He is so much better than no. 2 - and no. 2 is an absolute star! Look how much better he is than no.3 who again is a star because ' and so on.

Given the above discussion it should be much easier for a fighter in the really small weight divisions to appear dominant than it is for a fighter in a more mainstrem division.
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Impressed with this post.:good

bulakenyo · Jun 29, 2008

Long discussion. :think

To me, personally, I dont really care if the whole world thinks that Manny's not the best fighter in the world, pound for pound.

They can give the title to Calzaghe or Marquez or Cotto if they want, I dont care. It's all theirs.

As long as Manny keeps on winning and winning, I'll be OK with that.

And when he retires, I'll just let his career records speak for itself.

History will be the best judge.

dangerousity · Jun 29, 2008

Morrissey said:

atsch
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Agreed, ridiculous post. Thats like saying the HW in the past wasnt deep cos it was lacking a whole continent (asia) and latinos and the average sized guy isnt a HW. I could come back and say, the MW division should be called American-European championship. Again, absolutely ridiculous post.

Chert · Jun 29, 2008

bulakenyo said:

Long discussion. :think

To me, personally, I dont really care if the whole world thinks that Manny's not the best fighter in the world, pound for pound.

They can give the title to Calzaghe or Marquez or Cotto if they want, I dont care. It's all theirs.

As long as Manny keeps on winning and winning, I'll be OK with that.

And when he retires, I'll just let his career records speak for itself.

History will be the best judge.
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good post. :good

Decebal · Jun 29, 2008

Amsterdam said:

I refuse to name who the best is yet
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Why? Honest, I won't laugh! What's the great mystery? And what's with the emphasis on the word "yet"? Are you preparing to disclose the identity of the best fighter in the world at another, special time?

Amsterdam said:

I don't know who the best is yet, there are a lot of contenders for that ranking, but not just from recent performance, but the last 5 years, it's clearly not 1 dimensional Pac, seeing that he clearly lost to JMM, but got the paper decision.
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He clearly lost to JMM, did he? Is that according to the 10 point scoring system or to some other system of scoring? Whatever interpretation you have of the fight, what can not be debated is that Pacquiao put JMM on his backside a couple of times. So, he clearly lost? :huh The judges didn't think so; it was a close fight by anyone's reckoning! Just ask JMM!

Amsterdam said:

Do I actually need to explain this? Think about this for a second and then reflect the entire post I made without bias towards Pac.
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All right, all right, you're coping out. I cannot blame you, to be honest. Should have cut your losses way, way, back, though!:yep

Why don't you just come out and say it, huh? SAY IT! "Calzaghe is the best fighter in the world and I love him to bits!!!" Say it! The truth WILL set you free!

PH|LLA · Jun 29, 2008

Decebal said:

Is there anyone out there who still doubts Pacquiao is the best fighter in the world?
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Of course there is and there will always be. No matter who the fighter and what he accomplishes, all great fighters have their detractors no matter how great they are.

Decebal · Jun 29, 2008

Pharaoh said:

Of course there is and there will always be no matter who the fighter and what he accomplishes. All great fighters have their detractors no matter how great they are.
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Yeah, yeah...just wanted their names!

Benjiabc · Jun 29, 2008

nope, he is the best

québecwarrior · Jun 29, 2008

amsterdam est le pire trou du cul ahahahaha, ils fait TOUT en fonction de calzaghe sur ce forum..ahahahahah, vraimetn pathétique

TFFP · Jun 29, 2008

québecwarrior said:

amsterdam est le pire trou du cul ahahahaha, ils fait TOUT en fonction de calzaghe sur ce forum..ahahahahah, vraimetn pathétique
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:rofl

Comment va tu?

ibar78 · Jun 29, 2008

He's clearly the P4P #1 no one even comes close.

Pacman's detractors continually point to his "limited" skills set yet I totally disagree, if anything Manny Pacquiao appears to be improving skill wise with each fight. His speed and movement are exceptional, and now his ability to control the pace of the fight is first class whereas before he fought like he had only one gear now he's able to mix it up superbly.

Boxing needs guys like Manny, his fights are always exciting and you know he will always give 100%!

québecwarrior · Jun 29, 2008

TFFP said:

:rofl

Comment va tu?
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i'm very good this morning, i've just eat some pan cakes i'm a ****in good cook:smoke

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