Is there anything '74 Ali was better at than '67 Ali?

His punch resistance. His clinching game. That's about it. However he was still evolving as a boxer when he was exiled. He still would hone those skills but he'd be younger.

 

He was physically stronger. his clinching got better, punch resistance got better, technically I think he improved a bit to compensate for his reduced athleticism, he also sat down on his punches more so his punching got harder etc

 

Improved his punch resistance, inside work, punch sharpness, and was just generally craftier in the '70s.

I think the '70s Ali is superior to the one of the '60s, I've said it for a while, and I still stand by that. Same way that the more experienced version of Larry Holmes was better to the kinda green champion form the late '70s and very early '80s.

 

If you watch the first Liston fight Ali was able to maneuver Liston around at points.

 

That's true. Me saying that the '70s Ali is superior is no slam at the younger version of him.

 

Far from sure about that actually. In the first Chuvalo fight he was only two pounds lighter than in Zaire and had a better muscle tone to his body, and invited Chuvalo to beat on his midsection without showing any effects.

By that point he already practiced those tactics at least since the first Liston fight. And he had no problems handling the strongest fighters of that era in the clinch.

Yes, by the time of Zaire he had had even more time to practice that game in sparring, but there had also been age and wear and tear taking its toll on his body. Ali right before exile had already practiced those tactics for several years, but had a younger, fresher and stronger looking body.

So I'm not at all sure that he improved even in this regard. He himself dismissed the notion that he had added on substantial mass (from ca 8:30):

This content is protected

 

You think the Holmes who struggled with Witherspoon and Williams and lost to Spinks was better than the one who won every round but one in two fights against Shavers?

I mean, you're dead wrong about Ali as well of course, just had never heard that about Holmes before.

 

Exactly. There's always speculation he took a better punch, was stronger etc but it's just that for mine, speculation. Just because he didn't have to doesn't mean he couldn't. Hell, he took the odd brutal blow off Liston with disdain.

Late 60's version alllllllllll day long. He had to display different assets in the 70's because he could no longer get around it.

 

Yep. The real evolution in Ali's more physical game was really from '63 to '66, as Cooper testified to. He let Cooper rough him up on the inside in their first but by the second Cooper said that he controlled him completely in the clinches, like "a vice".

 

I could not agree more. His pinnacle was right on exile.

 

While I don't agree with those who claim that Holy was superior post his first title reign either, in that case I at least have to admit that he put on a substantial amount of muscle and looked stronger and more physically imposing. With Ali and Holmes I don't think even this was the case. Like most, they just put on fat when closing in on middle age.

 

Not forgetting Henry's quote when asked what it was like fighting Ali "Like fightin' a bleedin' tank!!"

 

Taking a punch?

 

Holy did look fantastic against Tyson both times. Perhaps it was a styles thing, perhaps it was partly steroids, hmmm.