Is there no film whatsoever of Harry Greb in an actual fight?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Swarmer, Jul 7, 2010.


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  1. Swarmer

    Swarmer Patrick Full Member

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    this is ******ed.

    Harry Greb beat 18 world champions, including a future world HW champion, as a career middleweight. 22 fights a year on average. only kayod 2 times in 300 fights. He won most of these fights after being blinded in one eye in 1921 by a detached retina. Harry Greb fought easily some of the toughest competition of any boxer ever. His resume reads basically like a who's who in boxing. He might have even beaten dempsey if he had been given a shot. By all accounts he beat him in sparring.
     
    Swarmer, Jul 8, 2010
    Swarmer, Jul 8, 2010
    #31
  2. natonic

    natonic Boxing Addict Full Member

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    It's a shame, because you can't deduce much from the training footage. If anything, only something negative can be obtained. The boxing movements look very awkward. Those big punching bags were hard to work. He actually looks pretty agile playing handball.
    IMO, his record mandates a top 5 placement (at least) and I always have him top 3. But I can't bring myself to rank him ahead of Robinson or even Langford who I've seen.
     
    natonic, Jul 8, 2010
    natonic, Jul 8, 2010
    #32
  3. natonic

    natonic Boxing Addict Full Member

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    p.s. on second look, the punching bag footage looks fine, that's not exactly a speed bag. I just don't understand why the sparring footage has that Charley Chaplin look to it and the handball footage looks fine.
     
    natonic, Jul 8, 2010
    natonic, Jul 8, 2010
    #33
  4. Swarmer

    Swarmer Patrick Full Member

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    it's the film quality, cuts 3-4 frames out of what you would basically see in modern video. these guys also feint and draw a lot more than modern fighters, which i think adds to the goofiness of it(you can see something similar in a lot of Langford fights imo).

    It's like playing a video game on a console built for the pc, when the action gets too fast frames are skipped and everything looks choppy and cartoony because the system cant render it fast enough
     
    Swarmer, Jul 8, 2010
    Swarmer, Jul 8, 2010
    #34
  5. Beatle

    Beatle Sheer Analysis Full Member

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    There was a film of Greb's win over Tunney, but it was lost. That means somebody either has it in their attic and doesn't know how important it is, or they threw it away without even knowing what it was.

    Anyway, once you look at Greb's record, and you look at the films of his opponents, you can safely assume he was a top 10 all-time p4p.

    Imagine if there were no footage available of Sugar Ray Robinson. Wouldn't his fight record alone be enough to say he is a top 10 all-time p4p?
     
    Beatle, Jul 8, 2010
    Beatle, Jul 8, 2010
    #35
  6. Squire

    Squire Let's Go Champ Full Member

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    Clearly you place less emphasis in seeing a guy fight than I do. The fact is you're still just listing statistics for the most part. How can you assess a guy's jab/defence/left hook etc. if you haven't seen him in a ring? By your reckoning you can rank the 100 greatest p4p fighters without ever seeing a fight, given enough knowledge.
     
    Squire, Jul 8, 2010
    Squire, Jul 8, 2010
    #36
  7. burt bienstock

    burt bienstock Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    BECAUSE he was fooling around sparring with the fiftyish owner of the gym, Phil Jack O'brien...What would anyone look like playing around with
    an old trainer ? Tear into O'Brien as was Harry Greb's windmill style ?Greb was posing for the newfangled camera,as you can see...He was going to fight Mickey Walker soon,July 2,1925 in a tough win in FIFTEEN rounds
    and TWO WEEKS later on July 16 he whipped light heavyweight Maxie
    Rosenbloom in 10 rds...Pretty good for a past prime 32 year old Greb....
    And blind in one eye, and the other eye failing...Amazingly tough was he...
     
    burt bienstock, Jul 8, 2010
    burt bienstock, Jul 8, 2010
    #37
  8. Squire

    Squire Let's Go Champ Full Member

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    I agree with this. What I'm talking about is specifically ranking- as in 3rd greatest p4p of all time rather than, say, 4th or 2nd. At that point I don't think stats alone are enough, I have no problem with people who disagree though
     
    Squire, Jul 8, 2010
    Squire, Jul 8, 2010
    #38
  9. Swarmer

    Swarmer Patrick Full Member

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    We have eyewitness accounts of greb, footage of the fighters he beat and their records(a few of which are P4P greats on their own), pictures of greb, books, magazines, all of which have pretty detailed accounts of his style and accomplishments. it's not harry greb's fault no film of him has surfaced or survived, in fact it's a ****ing shame considering we can watch fighters as old as jack johnson and joe gans and sam langford and gene tunney go at it, especially when greb has beaten a great deal of older fighters. We don't have that much extensive footage of a lot of fighters in their prime, but their cultural impact and p4p legacy survives. The point of the matter is that he has historically performed undeniably incredible boxing feats. everyone here wishes we could see it in 1080p on our TV's today on PPV or whatever. It's the nature of the beast that we cant
     
    Swarmer, Jul 8, 2010
    Swarmer, Jul 8, 2010
    #39
  10. Squire

    Squire Let's Go Champ Full Member

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    It is a pity. Its a shame for the guy's legacy, and the history of boxing. The point I was trying to make was more to do with boxing rankings than Harry Greb, in fact I would say my point was entirely to do with how fighters are ranked and nothing to do with Greb- he just happened to be the example, it could have been any fighter
     
    Squire, Jul 8, 2010
    Squire, Jul 8, 2010
    #40
  11. Swarmer

    Swarmer Patrick Full Member

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    your real problem is the concept of ranking, lists are subjective and p4p is basically no exception

    for what it's worth i do believe that a P4P list without SRR at the top isn't worth much, but it's all opinion anyway.
     
    Swarmer, Jul 8, 2010
    Swarmer, Jul 8, 2010
    #41
  12. mattdonnellon

    mattdonnellon Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Did anyone ever film later boxers with the same out-moded equipment as used pre-1930?
    Would settle a power of arguments!?
     
    mattdonnellon, Jul 8, 2010
    mattdonnellon, Jul 8, 2010
    #42
  13. Boilermaker

    Boilermaker Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    This is a good question. I believe that Sugar Ray Leonard's career is virtually the parallel of Tommy Ryans. Yet i dont see anyone with Tommy Ryan at the top of their pound for pound lists. So i guess most people wouldnt rate Sugar Ray, if there was no film.
     
    Boilermaker, Jul 8, 2010
    Boilermaker, Jul 8, 2010
    #43
  14. Boilermaker

    Boilermaker Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    This really would be a great project, but the closest i have ever seen is a youtube clip about the devolution of boxing where they manually cut frames and alter thetiming of a Klitchsko byrd fight.

    I would love to film say a Lewis Rahman fight or something else with that gear, pass it up as two old timers and listen to all the cries about the skill less giants of years gone by. It would be interesting.
     
    Boilermaker, Jul 8, 2010
    Boilermaker, Jul 8, 2010
    #44
  15. mattdonnellon

    mattdonnellon Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    GRIN! You get the point.
     
    mattdonnellon, Jul 8, 2010
    mattdonnellon, Jul 8, 2010
    #45
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