Is there no film whatsoever of Harry Greb in an actual fight?

What great irony it would be if we finally see fight footage of Greb and what we see is a crude wild swinging brawler.

 

Well I am sure he certaintly won't look as impressive as a modern great fighter, the technology of the day prohibits that. Cameras were often set up far from the ring and were set in a fixed position, the frames per second also make their movement appear in a very artificial manner. Then there is the quality of the actual film having deteriorated over the years it will be hard to get a pristine transfer.
As for Greb I wouldn't be surprised if he appears as brawler, just one that never tires has phenomenal speed and and can't be hurt.

 

what great irony it would be if people realized that even wild swinging brawlers can rule boxing…

it's not a sport you play; it's a struggle to survive.

 

I dont think it would be ironic at all. In fact aside from his speedy footwork I wouldnt picture Greb too far from the brawler/swarmer type. Although, as someone mentioned above, he was most often compared to Johnny Dundee. Dundee doesnt look like a crude brawler in the films of him.

 

As good as he probably was you've got to agree that watching Greb train is like watching a Norman Wisdom film!

 

Why? Training is design to get you in shape for a fight and Greb looks to be in phenomenal condition in that film.

 

I'm not talking about his conditioning, I'm talking about the little sparring session.

I know the cameras of those times were far from ideal but it does look comical, obviously a fighter is not judged by how he looks but by his results.

 

Just on if the films of Greb still exist?

I'm afraid most likely they don't. Check some of the famous silent film stars filmographies and note how many films have been lost. Those old nitrate-based films deteriorated over the years. Even 1930's talkies, like Laurel and Hardy's only color film, are lost. Even some early John Wayne starring films are lost.

I would love to see Greb in action, but most likely the films are lost forever.

 

There is enough footage of guys who beat and drew with Greb - like Tunney, Gibbons, Loughran, etc. - to know that Harry Greb was good enough to hang with them, if not always win against them.

Then again, you don't see Tunney, Gibbons and Loughran at the top of most lists for anything anymore.

And, if film of Greb was released, I'm going to go out on a limb say people wouldn't put him at the tops of any lists anymore, either.

He might still be on some lists, because people have a hard time letting go of stuff, but not near the top.

He was among the best of his day. But even the guys who were as good or better than him when he fought aren't at the tops of lists anymore. The only reason Greb still is, IMO, has to do with the fact that the films of him aren't available.

So people can still "imagine" what he "might" look like and point to an old newspaper clipping and say, "See, this guy said he was great."

 

I still have my fingers crossed that their is a chance it exists although I do feel your scenario is more Likely. Lot of private collectors exist in boxing for one thing.

 

I disagree. His resume is just too good, it's not about letting go, sugar ray Robinson still rates near the top of lists having footage of him only helps his cause.

 

That's fine if you disagree. Like you, I haven't seen him fight, either. He could be great. Or we could watch him and think he's not really that different than a lot of other guys who fought back then. Or he could be on par with Tommy Loughran. Which is fine, just nowhere near "the best ever."

You brought up Robinson. There has always been footage of Ray Robinson. Millions watched him on television. There are people alive now who watched Ray Robinson fight in person and remember watching him on television. We can all watch a lot of Ray Robinson.

By comparison, a fraction of a percentage of people ever saw Greb fight. If you weren't in the arena that night, you didn't see the fight. And anyone who did see him died a long time ago.

Books have been written about Greb praising him by people who never saw him fight, who based their research on pieces written by other people who didn't see him fight.

The situation with Robinson was nothing like that.

But since you brought him up, what's interesting about Robinson is, for decades, the only films available of Robinson were his middleweight fights. And when fans said, "He's really good, but he sure had trouble with that guy or that style" ... experts would say, "If you could've seen him at welterweight, that's when he was at his best. He wasn't the same at middleweight."

And that was the story for many years. "Don't put too much weight in Robinson's middleweight fights, because he was SO MUCH BETTER as a welterweight."

Then we got to see Ray at Welterweight. And, you know what, he wasn't much different than he was at middleweight. He really wasn't. The films showed Robinson was great but also "less than the perfect fighting machine" some insisted he was. Ray was just human. He could look outstanding and turn around and be ordinary. And the over-the-top descriptions of Robinson (particularly at welter) started to die down.

That said, guys Robinson beat, like Armstrong, Basilio, and on and on are still considered among the best ever.

Loughran, Gibbons ... even Tunney ... they're respected, but they are old-timers who have been surpassed by others who came after.

That's fine if people want to rank Greb among the best ever. That's fine if you don't.

If we had footage, I just think the argument would end pretty quickly. Even Greb's peers who beat him - who we have footage of -- are no longer viewed as the best ever in their weight class.

Time moves on. But with him, it doesn't. Because there's no footage to put the argument to rest. So he's the perfect "fantasy fighter."

 

..

 

I referenced Robinson, only to make a comparison that if footage of him did not exist he would still rate as a top 3 fighter if not best ever p4p, but that because footage does exist it allows him to keep his position because it's readily available to view. Point being sometimes the resume is so good good it's just too hard to ignore as an indicator. With no footage of Greb some people will eventually let his standing fade, I do not because of the quality of his wins- I have Tunney and Walker alone in top 20 p4p. Both of those fighters look very good on film to me, in addition Greb who was not a large man fought and defeated many heavies, crossed the color line and also defeated a slew of the top black fighters of the day. When everything is added up, I choose to beleive that he was one of he top 2-3 fighters that ever graced the sport. How he looked on film may alter my opinion one way or the other, and like you we will never know but what I can go on is results and the man produced extraordinary results.