Is there really that much between Fury and Joshua?

AJ has better wins, but the Ruiz loss and the two Usyk losses have definitely made him, rightfully, to be viewed lower than Tyson

 

A KO is more conclusive than going to the scorecards.

 

It's more conclusive in that you virtually can't be robbed if you KO (though many thought the stoppage was premature and a result of Joshua's A-side advantage) but it doesn't demonstrate a higher level of ability per se. Puritty, Sanders and Brewster all KO'd Wlad in his 20's faster than Joshua KO'd him at 41. I don't know if Puritty and Brewster did better jobs than Joshua though because they took an absolute pasting (wear) and lost virtually every round.

Fury set the all time defensive record in a 12 round fight against a champion in any weight class and he did it against the P4P No.2, winning 8-4/9-3 on the cards in Germany. And whatever excuses people like to make, Wlad was objectively 17 months younger, fresher, active, 12 months removed from a career best performance, a 4/1 favourite and a champion undefeated in 11.5 years, fighting at home as the A-side: all of this was reversed against Joshua, who went life and death in spite of this. And many believe he's never been the same since.

 

I've already addressed the Wlad point.

Whyte wasn't dominated equally by both: he didn't land a meaningful punch on Fury and got shut out and one-punched in 6, whereas virtually everyone on Eyeonthering and Boxrec had Whyte winning 2 rounds against Joshua and it was something of a war. Compubox also backs this up, I believe Whyte landed over twice as many punches on Joshua and way more than twice as many headshots, which do far more damage. So Fury's performance against Whyte was vastly superior, as was the Wlad fight: that was statistically the greatest defensive masterclass in boxing history.

Joshua was far more destructive against a more faded, uber-journeyman Kevin but Fury showed far better overall boxing skills, stamina and IQ. As Joshua moved up the levels he found he couldn't stop anyone in the 1st 6 rounds and frequently didn't score KO's. Blasting out a journeyman can be impressive but only says so much. Destroying the Kevin's, Molina's and green Martin's of the world isn't worth much if you're going life and death or getting stopped a couple of levels above that.

McDermott wars at 21 half a dozen or so fights in were great for Fury experience-wise (a year later he dominated Chisora, who a year after that gave Vitali his 3rd hardest and closest fight ever) and at the same age Joshua was getting stopped in 3 by Nistor. The Pakjic and Cunningham fights led to Fury's chin being underestimated: no one with a bad chin goes 4 fights away with GOAT punchers Wlad and Wilder and survives every time. Nor do they go the distance with 22 year old Price at 17 or sign to fight Haye coming off the Cunningham fight.

Suspect chinned fighters seek to avoid punchers, hence everyone barring Povetkin (who was in poor KO form in his prior 3 fights and was increasingly shopworn) in AJ's last 9 including Franklin has been a light puncher. And AJ's still managed to lose three and get stopped.

 

Fury is clearly ahead

 

AJ was KOd by fatso Andy and lost 2X to a cruiserweight. Ofc I didn't know Cunningham was at or below 200 when he faced Fury /sarcasm.

You're reaching. The 3 cherry picked common opponents don't make a strong case for AJ anyway. His 3 losses make a strong case that Fury is, and s/be rated above AJ. I also think a Fury-AJ bout would likely be very competitive.

 

This is a deliberately misleading post.

- Johnson: You conveniently leave out the context that Fury beat him when Johnson only had 2 previous losses (one to Vitali).
While Joshua beat a diminished gatekeeper version of Johnson years later who was on a 3 consecutive loss streak (and 6 losses overall).

- Klitschko: Fury beat a version of Wlad who had been unbeaten in 11 years as the B-side, away from home, without leaving second gear, barely losing a round.
Joshua went life and death being knocked down by a version of Wlad who had been inactive for 2 years and coming off a loss, with all the A-side advantages at home.

- Whyte: Joshua was hurt badly by Whyte. Whyte barely landed a single meaningful shot on Fury.

Re: John McDermott (not Brian, so that makes me wonder how serious you are with this post or if you’re just trolling, but regardless I’ll address it); Fury fought the veteran McDermott in his 8th pro fight at age 20 for the English heavyweight title, a massive step up for such an inexperienced young prospect. Fury’s supposed poor performance is overblown, it was no doubt competitive but he wasn’t schooled like many try to claim.
Meanwhile, at age 20, Joshua was still 4 years away from making his pro debut. Compare Joshua’s 8th opponent to Fury’s 8th opponent and you’ll see that the difference is that Fury didn’t shy away from making big step ups early in his career. Fury did not take the Wilder bum-crushing route to the top, he challenged himself early.

 

Fury performed much better vs Wladimir than Joshua did who was clearly losing the fight.

 

Great post.

A relevant section from my essay on McDermott 1:

"Considering that 247 lbs Fury had just turned 21 and was a 7 fight pro novice with only 35 amateur bouts and 11 pro rounds completed, 9 months into his pro career, stepping up to British title level in his first 10 rounder (having never gone past 4 rounds previously, whereas McDermott had completed 108 pro rounds and had gone past 4 rounds on 10 occasions, including in two full 10 rounders and two full 12 rounders), first domestic title fight and first war, against a determined, 253 lbs, 29 year old, 9 year, 30 fight, 5 domestic title fight pro veteran with 16 KO’s that Fury (who was notoriously undisciplined at the time) underestimated, it was an impressive performance. Fury could have fought more journeymen and padded his record but instead he was tested very early on, which gave him valuable experience for the rest of his career.

It’s implicit going into the fight that the undefeated young prospect with great potential marketability and the ability to go on to become a world champion who is stepping up in levels and taking a risk will get the nod in a close fight over a little-known veteran with multiple losses who reached his apex at domestic level and has nothing to lose. This is because a bad result for the prospect (who has the deck stacked against him in terms of experience, maturity and psychology) could derail his career and would permanently damage his reputation and marketability, with no comparable upside for the veteran or the boxing industry."

Fury should get credit for taking on harder challenges when so young and green. He was moved faster than Lewis, Wlad and Joshua early on and they had huge advantages in amateur experience or amateur experience and maturity.

Lewis 9 months in at 8-0: 24.5 years old, 100 amateur bouts, collective records of opponents 107-103-9, average weight of opponents 215 lbs

Fury 9 months in at 8-0: 21 years old, 35 amateur bouts, collective records of opponents 120-72-5, average weight of opponents 232 lbs

 

The Wlad comparison is slightly more relevant than the Whyte match ups.



The Wlad fights were back to back with a long time between both but still relatively closer than the Whyte fights.



Joshua beat an unbeaten Whtye both early in there careers. Fury beat Whtye was it last year. Not sure any real comparison can be made other than they both won.



John McDermott was a veteran some could call that a journeyman. Probably slightly better or more ambitious than that, but that was never a fight Fury should have lost.



Comparing resumes and skills or whatever else doesn't really matter. They've both had good and bad performances but Fury has come through his bad ones on top. That's been the difference.

 

Well AJ has 3 losses, so there's that. Is there much between AJ and Wilder? Wilder KOed Breazeale much easier and he also KOed Ortiz who had a better showing against Ruiz than AJ did.

 

2 years inactive? Come on Rummy don't get drawn into hyperbole to win an argument