Is This Additional Greb Footage?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by he grant, Jul 11, 2021.



  1. klompton2

    klompton2 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Youve got to love when ignorant morons like STPAT and Kamikaze either completely misrepresent your words or just entirely make up things youve never said. My book is there for all to read. Its as thorough as any biography ever written and exhaustively cited. If you want to go through my citations and find anything Ive left out, misquoted, or misrepresented then be my guest. Ill be waiting here. Itll be a long wait though because short of trolling and bitching and whining you are too lazy to do anything but a quick google search to find a single source that kinda sorta represents whatever argument youve settled on for the day. "Greb's reputation grew in the 80s and 90s beyond what it was during his life." Gee, ya think that might have something to do with the diligent researchers who uncovered his record? When Greb was alive there was no television, no internet, radio was in its infancy. He fought all over the country 300 times in a 13 year career in an era when even small towns might have three or more newspapers. There was no way for people like Nat Fleischer who had an outsized influence on the written history of boxing to fully appreciate Greb's legacy any more than he could know that myths he spewed about Billy Papke punching Ketchel before their second fight were false and yet that story is still accepted as gospel. They didnt have access to the amount of information that we do today and the information they did have access to, wire reports, were easily and often misrepresented by managers of fighters that Greb beat. This isnt speculation you can see it in real time in the old newspapers. We have so much more information on Greb today than someone like Nat Fleischer, who was considered THE MAN in boxing that its not even comparable. As the old newspapermen died out and newspapers closed, and Fleischer's Ring Magazine became the dominant rag and was staffed by ex NY Newspapermen the narratives they spun became the accepted gospel of the sport. Now, tell me what percentage of his career did Greb fight in New York? Tell me how many of those fights were fought after Greb was blind in one eye? Argue with me that the NY press wasnt biased in favor East Coast fighters particular from the New York Metropolitan area. Argue with me that New York wasnt actively seeking to control the sport which led to the rise of the NBA to combat its oversized influence. Argue with me that it wasnt an accepted practice for fighters to have to pay New York writers for favorable copy. Tell me there wasnt a huge controversy where Greb outed this practice and refused to pay drawing the ire of the New York press. Was he not the victim of a concerted smear campaign by the New York press in the run up to the second and third Tunney fights? I could go on and on but again, I wasnt afraid to quote my sources, ALL OF THEM, for posterity for all to see, check, scrutinize, and follow up on. What have you done except whine like a little ***** on an internet forum. Put your ****ing name to paper and stand by it, then we can have a debate like equals. Until then you are nothing but a sad little troll.
     
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  2. BCS8

    BCS8 VIP Member Full Member

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    that post is 2 years old
     
  3. Melankomas

    Melankomas Prime Jeffries would demolish a grizzly in 2 Full Member

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    This entire thread is 2 years old, but it's the only one I can find that actually mentions this supposed video of Greb.
     
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  4. SwarmingSlugger

    SwarmingSlugger Active Member Full Member

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    Big Greb fan but not sure we can say that.
     
  5. Melankomas

    Melankomas Prime Jeffries would demolish a grizzly in 2 Full Member

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    How come? I don't think the lack of footage affects his legacy.
     
  6. Greg Price99

    Greg Price99 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    It depends what is meant by "best".

    Best as in literally better, relative to his size, than every other fighter in history...I agree its difficult to say that without footage.

    He has the best, in terms of quality and depth, win resume in history, though, and clearly so, imo.
     
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  7. SwarmingSlugger

    SwarmingSlugger Active Member Full Member

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    Greb definitely has the best resume no doubt about it.
     
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  8. Saintpat

    Saintpat Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Riddle me this oh ‘great (self-published) writer who doesn’t know what a paragraph or punctuation is and types in long, unwieldy blocks of copy’ (see above):

    1) Was Greb widely, universally considered among the top handful or less fighters in the history of sport in his day? Because I haven’t challenged that he was, indeed, great — I said so plainly — but rather commented on the fact that his esteem has grown in time.

    So either most every expert in his day marveled at him or they did not. The record shows that they did not, and that his reputation blossomed in the decades far after his final fight.

    2) Are there any other fighters from his era who were considered great who did not fight the majority of their bouts in New York City?

    Fact check: there were. So the idea that he fought often outside of New York being the reason he wasn’t universally revered because he fought a lot of different places holds no water.

    3) Did Greb not fight dozens of fights in the East Coast corridor? Did he not fight in New York City? Did he not fight at Yankee Stadium, the Polo Grounds and numerous times in Madison Square Garden? Not to mention, did he not fight in Philadelphia several times and also in Boston and in Buffalo, etc?

    Truth: He did indeed. So the idea that he wasn’t widely acclaimed because he rarely fought on the East Coast (and in major cities and venues in that geographic area) is why his greatness wasn’t recognized in his day — because he wasn’t exposed to the East Coast press — is poppycock.

    4) Was the New York City press a monolith, a hivemind that acted wholly as one in assessing fighters? Did they get together in smoke-filled basements and come to agreements that some particular fighters were great with no dissenting opinions and others were not — with all agreeing to hold the party line and not write praise of fighters who they decided to ‘blackball’ and all write only glowing reviews of every fighter they came to universal agreement on as being greats? Can you provide a list of which fighters were in each category.

    Fact: Not every writer shared the same opinions in assessing various fighters and their written words reflect such.

    5) Can you provide proof as to which NYC writers were paid (and how much, how regularly, etc.) by which athletes of the day? And which athletes did not fork over money? Can you provide proof that only athletes who provided such payments got good reviews and ALL fighters who did not kick in payoffs were panned?

    Fact: You cannot and never will. This is something you made up out of whole cloth.

    6) Are you constitutionally incapable of disagreeing with someone or having a discussion with someone who doesn’t fawn over you because you wrote a self-published book without name-calling?

    Comment: I withdraw this question because your post history makes it 100% clear that you cannot have a civil discussion unless it’s with someone who says you’re completely right and they acknowledge your ‘greatness,’ lol.

    I welcome your non-response to the other five questions, the long block of copy without use of paragraphs and the schoolyard insults you will surely resort to rather than discuss things on basis of facts — which I presented. Tell me where I’m wrong.
     
  9. klompton2

    klompton2 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Again, if you want to cite specific examples from my book that you have a problem with AFTER going to the sources then do so. Otherwise Im not going to waste my time with straw man arguments that are either broadly generalized or completely made up. If you thesis is "Greb was great but his current standing among experts is revisionism and not based on dedicated research" then good luck pissing in the wind. As for your denigration of self published authors I hate to break it to you but the vast majority of boxing books since the dawn of the 21s century are self published. Do you think I take it as an insult? I did all of the research, wrote my book, designed the layout, designed the cover, started the publishing company that published it, went through the copyright and ISBN process myself, it has sold well, is well reviewed, and has twice been licensed for the movie rights and you think some nameless internet troll is going to bother me by sneering at it for being self published? What have you done? LOL.
     
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  10. SwarmingSlugger

    SwarmingSlugger Active Member Full Member

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    I have to agree. Presenting your arguments/opinions is fine but attacking someone with a condescending self published author reference is ridiculous. Itś a tactic wielded mostly by court historian and other establishment types.
     
  11. BoB Box

    BoB Box Rollin with the punches Full Member

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    Weird Thread! the original video that supported the whole thread is "unavailable" and 2 posters are banned from the argument?
     
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  12. Pugguy

    Pugguy Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Could be The Bermuda Triangle of threads.

    Best not to hang around too long or we’ll disappear too!

    Watch out for them Foo Fighters.
     
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  13. BoB Box

    BoB Box Rollin with the punches Full Member

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    Everlong
     
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  14. BoB Box

    BoB Box Rollin with the punches Full Member

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    Darn Pugguy, your dragging in to a thread I just said was weird, so now im weird.
     
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  15. Pugguy

    Pugguy Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I’m tellin’ ya - another second longer in this thread and you will be gone.

    When they take you to the Mother Ship (after mandatory probing), say Hi to Harry G. for me.

    Not to be Kurt with you, but who knows, it mightn’t be so bad there - it may turn out to be Nirvana.
     
    BoB Box likes this.