Is this really an ATG Top 10 resume....

What does it matter that he had yet to win renown as a top 20 atg? He was in his prime and that's all that counts.

I have Ray Leonard, Ernesto Marcel and Ken Buchanan in my top 100. Esteban DeJesus is just outside it and many would include him in a top 100 list.

The heavyweight division is not as deep as the lightweight division, so that's hardly a damning fact for Duran.

Overall, I would admit that Ali beat better comp at heavyweight than Duran did at lightweight, but as far as overall resume goes I'd say they were about on par.

 

I don't have time to do a comprehensive post on this, but just a few details to consider:

1. Duran is both the oldest of the Fab 4, and the one who started at the lowest weight. By far. Although he certainly didn't stay there long Duran weighed in for his first couple of fights at around 119, and it was almost 3 years into his career before he was fighting as a lightweight. Despite those factors he holds a victory over one of the other 3, (at welter) and a competitive loss against another, at middleweight.

2. By the time he fought Leonard for the first time, he already had more fights than anyone else in the Fab 4 would in their entire career.

3. Out of the Fab 4, I believe only Hagler comes out ahead of Duran for the length of time spent as a champion. I'm not sure of that though, so don't quote me on it. (Also, it's pretty close, so if you add up all of Duran's short title reigns at welter and above, he might squeeze ahead).

4. Duran's late career heroics. Sometimes he gets too much credit for them, and sometimes people sneer at the opposition he faced for his last few big wins, but from where I stand, a former lightweight beating up a middleweight who later fought at (and KOd) guys at heavyweight by going to war with him in the trenches is pretty impressive stuff.

For a rough comparison, imagine that instead of Hopkins, Pavlik fights Pacquiao and Pac wins, while being right in Pavlik's face and taking his best shots. Pavlik, (much like Barkley, who is the middleweight Duran fought) is nowhere near a top 100 fighter, but it's still pretty damn impressive.

And that's about all I have time to talk about right now. Decide for yourself whether Duran deserves the high rank some people give him, and have fun doing it.

 

How does pursuing bigger and better challenges instead constitute "ducking"? :huh

 

Good troll

 

Actually it's even more crazy than that, because Duran was 38 for that win and Pac is 32. A better comparison would be if Oscar De La Hoya came back and won the super middleweight title in 2011.

 

But he was a lightweight for most of his career. He was getting old and fighting much bigger, younger men - who happened to also be all-time greats. Duran was the first guy to go the distance with Hagler in a title fight - Marvin had stopped every single *middleweight* who had fought him for the belt. Then along comes this little guy, in his 30s, who takes him the distance in a close contest. Duran was the only guy to beat prime Leonard, and he went toe to toe for the win, unlike Leonard's Tour de France impersonation against Hagler. Ok he got bombed out by Hearns but Hearns has knocked out cruiserweights.

Basically, by any normal reckoning, an ageing lightweight should have been KTFO by guys of Leonard and Hagler's calibre. Most lightweights would never even consider competing against a middleweight contender, let alone a title holder, and certainly not one of the top 3 ATG middleweights in Hagler. I mean come on, even most top welterweights would have been KTFO by Hagler, let alone lightweights. What other lightweight in their *prime* could even hope to last the distance against prime Ray Leonard, let alone beat him? An old Duran did it. Can you imagine Oscar de La Hoya making a comeback and beating Ward or Bute at super middle? Or Pacquaio in 5 years time taking the middleweight title? That's what Duran did.

 

Why in god's name would you take away his win over leaonard?

 

The Barkley win cemented Duran's place among the all-time elite.

 

No argument here.

The man had only 71 fights when he met prime ATG Leonard and beat him in one of the greatest fights of the decade.

And despite having beaten every man he ha faced in those 71 fights, his record was blemished with a loss to Dejesus.

I think we can safely disregard the fact that he avenged that loss twice by stoppage. You gotta get it right first time, don't you ?

Definitely overrated.




His demolition of rising star Davey Moore shouldn't count for much now, should it ?

What did Moore ever do, other than stop Kalule and Benitez ?

And why should we put much weight on the fact that Moore was a natural 154 lb and eight years younger than the ageing Duran, who started out at 119 lbs and had 135 as his best weight ? minor detail !




And losing to Marvin ? Everybody knows we can't count losses. Even if they're competitive losses against a younger top five ATG 160 lber.

Would we give Pac any credit if he went 15 with a prime Bernard ?
I don't really think so.



And Iran Barkley ?

What's the big deal about beating Iran in a fight-of-the-year bout ?

What did Iran ever do, other than stop a prime Hearns in his previous fight, and later go on to beat a former heavyweight champion.

But should we really put much stock in the massive size and age difference here ? Probably not.




And Jorge Castro ?

Who was he ?

First man to take RJJ the distance in Roy's 18th outing. So what ?

Duran was only 46 when he beat the much bigger 30 year old Castro, who was 100-5 at the time.

He should be given no more credit for this victory than a 46 year old FMJ would get if he beat a prime Glencoffe Johnson at 168. (Assuming Floyd is still boxing in 2024 and Glencoffe has a time machine).


Aren't we giving Duran too much credit for what boxing writers have termed great wins (some of them fights of the year) that spanned seven weight divisions and twenty seven years ?


And so what if RING'S writers ranked Duran #5 of the past 80 years. What do they know?


Much ado about little, I say.


Great post and thread, there, Body Head.

I can see you are going to be the scourge of the overrated, and will doubtless expose many more pretenders in the months ahead.

 

Scientist Wanderer & Cuchulain very nice explanations. Theres more than meets the (boxrec) eye - Body Head

 

Great post, I like :good