We'll have to agree to disagree. I believe Silva's general low level of opposition during his reign made him look better than he actually was. The top guys the last few years have been: Weidman, Rockhold, Romero, Jacare, Whittaker and Mousasi. I'd only make him a favourite vs Mousasi and it's a 50/50 fight vs a focused, on top of his game Mousasi. Best striker? As in P4P? I don't agree, he was outstruck by Weidman on the feet in both their fights. Whittaker is clearly a more versatile striker imo.
I make him a favourite over them all but I'd be surprised if he actually beat them all. Yeah p4p I doubt we'll ever see anything like him again tbh.
Romero above Jacare? No way. He got a gift decision when they fought so he on paper isn't even the better guy H2H. Jacare has been consistent over a much longer period of time.
I dont think it was a gift, it could have gone either way imo. But let's look objectively at the two. At MW Romero has only ever lost to Whitaker. He's beaten Brunson, Kennedy, Machida, Weidman and Rockhold. Let's treat the Jacare fight as a draw for the sake of the argument. At MW Jacare has lost to Mousasi, Rockhold and Whitaker. He's beaten Miller, Lindland, Okami, Boetsch, Brunson, Kennedy, Lawler, Belfort, Mousasi. I think Romero has a clear edge in resume there. I mean you could argue that Jacare beat Romero and Rockhold, I suppose, but you could also argue he lost those two as well. Either way these two are neck and neck for me.
Completely disagree. With 10 point must and the rules at the time a Romero win is next to impossible as he clearly lost 2 and 3. Best case scenario for him is a draw. The judges botched this one horribly just like Werdum/Overeem III. http://www.mmadecisions.com/decision/6691/Yoel-Romero-vs-Ronaldo-Souza The overwhelming consensus has Souza either winning or taking a draw. They're close in terms of top class wins I'll give you that, but like I said in the previous post Souza gets an edge for his consistency as a top MW(that definitely counts for something) and the depth of his resume overall. If we're going to judge them on top class wins it's neck and neck - fine. But for me Souza's longer career and the amount of depth on his record is the difference maker.
I will rewatch the fight because I love high level grappling but I don't remember being disappointed with the decision, similar to Jacare Vs Rockhold. I judge on like a p4p winnability criteria as opposed to traditional greatness. Do you agree though that these two have overtaken the likes of Bisping, Hendo, Franklin, Weidman and Rockhold as MW greats?
Definitely most of those guys. I think Weidman and Rockhold are pretty debatable despite how they've fared lately. Rockhold of course has the SF run which is really underrated and culminated with his winning the MW title(Jacare, Kennedy ain't too shabby) and then popping Weidmans cherry in a performance so dominant that arguably ruined him as a fighter(at least partially) Then suffered and embarrassing setback against Bisping and had a scare against Branch before getting it together and then coming up short against Romero. I don't know that I'd rate Romero or Jacare over him mostly for reason of lineage(I know you're a big proponent of this) and then with Weidman I think his undefeated UFC run is pretty damn impressive ad not easily overtaken. The others especially Bisping and Franklin - probably Hendo. Yeah. Ask me again in 12-18 months lol.
Rockhold and Weidman are very debatable, but for me I think ultimately these two are better fighters. I mean Romero is undoubtedly better because he has beaten them both in dominant fashion. Jacare is definitely better than Weidman, arguable with Rockhold but I give him an edge. My MW rankings atm are Silva Whitaker Romero Jacare Henderson Rockhold Weidman Franklin Shamrock Bisping As I say it's based mostly on p4p winnability. Rockhold would be higher were it not his chin cos he's a fantastic all round fighter, like a more active version of Shields. But I reckon Hendo finds a way of landing that bomb on him. Weidman, man he was a flame that burned bright and short wasn't he. I tend to think he caught lightening in a bottle twice against Silva and prime for prime Silva ends him. I probably would have had Moose in there but Franklin secured some top class post prime victories. I have a lot of love for Frank. He changed MMA forever the way he battered Tito into submission. Bisping, one of the best contenders ever but a very poor champion. Still I think his style makes him hard to beat unless you finish him. Sonnen deserves a mention as well but he arguably should have lost to Bisping himself.
It proves that on the night he was the better fighter not in general. Not clutching at straws here - but I find it hard to believe that he fought the best Weidman who had taken an absolute pummeling against Rockhold and thereafter losing to Romero went on to have a poor losing effort against Mousasi. Strictly speaking on Weidman's undefeated UFC run before he suffered a brutal beatdown loss to Rockhold. That form - Maia, Munoz, Silva X2, Machida(fresher than the one Rockhold and Romero beat) Belfort is a pretty damn good run that has an extremely good argument over Rockhold, Souza or Romero as far as greatness is concerned - h2h and otherwise. Rockhold is a bit different. But for me on the preponderance of the evidence would suggest that he's more accomplished, better h2h overall but man to man worse than Romero. The next 12-16 months and what happens in that crazy landscape while be more decisive. But my instinct that Rockhold and Weidman have a slight edge currently.
I tend to think that Romero could have pulled off the run that Weidman did and would have beaten Weidman during that run. Rockhold has always been chinny, he's never ever taken a beating, he just is liable to get caught by knockout shots. Romero, Belfort and Bisping all one bombed him. But aside from defensive lapses he's an incredible talent. If say Rockhold beat Jacare in a rematch and then Whitaker I'd be inclined to rank him higher. Same if Weidman is to beat any of the top names again he gives himself a great shot. But if they all retired today I'd rank them in that order I gave.
The very fact is that an old man like Romero can get a title shot in the middleweight division, which signifies that the division is weak. I am starting to question it. Bisping is an overrated glass jawed fraud Rockhold is an overrated glass jawed fraud Weidman is an overrated glass jawed fraud Kennedy is an overrated glass jawed fraud Anderson Silva is an overrated glass jawed fraud the list is endless. Saint Pierre is truly a Goat, going up a weight class and beating the champion despite having a long retirement. Truly a goat, along with Fedor and the like. Whitaker will bring Polynesian pride and triumph to the middleweight division, making that division TRULY great and prosperous. Siva Tau!! Siva Tau!! Haka. E sili atu i tatou!!