Is Tim Sylvia, MMA's last chance?

No ****, but there was a personal agreement between the two fighters to keep it standing.

The reason for the "exhibition" tag was the drug testing, not the rules, that fight took place under full MMA rules with NO AGREEMENT.

THATS your evidence? Not that he was mad for losing, mad for losing to an easy move, mad to losing to a move he doesn't consider "manly" Why no comments after the fight saying Kimbo broke your imagined agreement? They were both interviewed. Verbal contracts are usually binding, why was nothing ever pursued? Why wouldn't Mercer say one single ****ing thing? Why did Mercer say HE WAS TRAINING MMA?

Learn the difference between striking and punching, Kimbo didn't put on a clinic or anything, but he was the only one of the two landing anything, mostly knees, and a good elbow, which are strikes. He did, however, land decent punches,
right hook to the body, then two short left hooks to the head at 4:37 to 4:33
right hand to the body at 4:19,
scoring left hook to the head at 4:17,
right hand to the body following a poor left to the body at 4:15

Not prime Tyson stuff, but I said he was getting the better of the boxing, not that he is a good boxer.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZWQn-Rvg-U

Not great boxing, but BETTER THAN ANYTHING FROM MERCER. What did Mercer land at all in the entire fight? The only thing he ever did offensively were grappling moves, which he wouldn't have done if your conspiracy theory is to be believed.

It proves that without "gentlemans agreements" boxers have no business fighting. Mercer obviously did not expect this to be a boxing match,
he had a basic half guard sweep, why would he train that for a boxing match?
He went for a guillotine at 4:10
He pummeled for an underhook and swept Kimbo, albeit falling right into a guillotine himself, at 4:00.

So why would he train these MMA moves if he was going to a boxing match? Why would the promoter, who was posting on mma.tv at the time and never mentioned anything other than a pure MMA fight, complain that he did not get what he paid for? Verbal agreements are usually legally binding, why would either Mercer or the promoter, who was having money trouble, not try to without Kimbo's purse or even seek damages for breaking a verbal contract?

You are just an idiot. Mercer did a great thing knocking out Sylvia, but there is a reason it was such big news, because it is so unlikely in an MMA fight, which it wasn't even in.

 

http://www.boxing24.com/mercer-vs-kimbo-tonight/

Had enough yet? I don't think you have
http://www.snk-capcom.com/forums/archive/index.php?t-23605.html

 

I just don't get all the whining, if Mercer wants all these fights to be stand up fight why is he fighting MMA fighters? Why not just keep boxing? Its ALL excuses, BOX if you want to stand up, fight MMA if you want to fight ANYWHERE! Pretty ****in' simple.

 

Then when you beat a Tim Sylvia you aren't hailed as a god by those who hate MMA, and when you lose to a bum off the streets you aren't thought to have been cheated.

 

Standup, not just boxing, there is a difference; maybe boxers don't understand that yet.

 

LOL, keep thinking that.

That was straight up MMA. Even Sylvia admitted afterwards he shouldnt have stood with a boxer, meaning that a takedown was a viable option in that bout.

Tim Sylvia: "MMA is my world, Ray really doesnt want this. MMA is just another win on my record, maybe we will have a boxing match in the future."

Ray Mercer: "I've been training 8 weeks for boxing. I gotta feel like this is the best day of his life because I have to go into his world and do his thing but im willing to do that because im a man. I'm prepared to do MMA and beat him in MMA."

Commission: "So let me get this straight, you're willing to fight MMA?"

Ray Mercer: "Im doing everything i gotta do, ill be a man, ill come over into his game, thats what im about."

Nice try though.

 

Kimbo has a history of breaking agreements and claiming Gannon was a cheat. In a radio show, Kimbo stated that Gannon broke a "hands only agreement" by using Chokes and knees. But if you rewatch their fight , you can see after the 40 sec mark that kimbo was getting out struked by Gannon and then shot in for a takedown. He does it everytime he is in trouble, or in the mercer's case.

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....He simply took the advice of Bas Rutten. Which explains why kimbo was disobeying bas coaching about ground fighting from The Seth fight. Kimbo knew he pussied out in the mercer fight.The guy is always talking about mike tyson and being "a banger from the streets" refers to a puncher.

btw, kimbo didn't land almost nothing on mercer that wasn't blocked.

 

This is from the Sherdog forums. The poster is a very knowledgable, arguably the most knowledgable poster on the forum. Of course thats not saying much on Sherdog.

But here is what he says about the Mercer/Kimbo "fight." This "fight" always seemed sketchy to me and this definitely answered some questions.

But it was the NJSACB who licensed the show in Atlantic City that forced this being designated as "not real".
Ray told a member weeks prior that if Kimbo "tries to make this about wrestling I'm walking out, I don't wrestle", which he did. The NJSACB cannot sanction a boxing or kickboxing match using MMA gloves, so the fight was arranged as an exhibition instead, with an un-contracted (non-official) agreement between the fighters to stand, Mercer thinking he'd just let Kimbo punch himself out and then knock him out.
Once Kimbo grappled, Mercer's pre arrangement to loose the match voluntarily was fulfilled and the "fight" was therefore a work.
Could Mercer have won if he wasn't so adamant about no grappling and just threw something to end the fight ?

Well that's what the Sylvia fight looked into, and I'd have to say ya, most likely.

But Mercer was paid alright for Kimbo with the intent to throw the fight and help build Kimbo up for Martinez (Cage Fury Fighting Championship president Felix Martinez, who promoted), and since the NJSACB was aware and designated this an exhibition with no betting lines, nobody broke any laws and everyone went home happy.
How do I know all this ?
You think only ticket buying fans post on SD ?

Nobody needs to settle for my word on this, an anonymous message board poster.
Editors of Fight Finder got their clarity and you can too as this info is public domain, so if anyone is curious further, a simple, brief letter to inquire will do and will be responded to within 14 working days:


New Jersey State Athletic Control Board
Hughes Justice Complex
25 Market Street 6th Floor West Wing P.O. Box 180.
Trenton, New Jersey
08625-0180

At the end of the day, do you know how ridiculous this sounds? Were talking about a 48 year old boxer who just defeated a top 10 MMA HW in MMA.

And the best rebuttal for MMA fans is an exhibition match with Kimbo Slice, when one of the participants acknowledges that he has no intention of grappling and was expecting to simply stand and trade with Kimbo?

Score one for MMA.

 

The fight with Sylvia was an MMA fight you idiot. Thats not even debatable, I dont even know why you're discussing this.

LOL, A boxer has no business fighting, thats pretty funny and stupid coming from a "golden gloves" boxer in yourself.

But I agree, Mercer has NO business fighting. He is after all nearly 50, and yet he had no problem wiping out a TOP 10 HW in MMA, under MMA rules.

Mercer actually defended those knees admirably, i'd hardly say they landed. And, if you call this "match" a match in where Kimbo outboxed Mercer, you dont know much boxing. Because literally everything Kimbo threw DID NOT LAND. And the most important thing in boxing is clean effective punching. Kimbo simply did not do this. So yeah, you can claim Kimbo "outstruck" Mercer but it certainly was due to his effectiveness, moreso his activity and aggression which really is secondary to clean effective strikes which again KImbo did not do.

And yes there was a gentlemans agreement. And yes, he did grappling moves, after the fact Kimbo tried to take him down. Its simply survival, to try to defend himself. For someone you claim to have done grappling, its pretty incredible that he sounds absolutely clueless about MMA and cant even refer to chokeholds in their proper terms.

There wasnt even god damn betting lines on this fight. You know who else doesnt have betting lines? The WWE because its fake.

 

Mercer wants to get paid, which is why he went over to Japan to collect paycheques and why he fought Kimbo and Sylvia.

ANd Mercer had NO INTENTION of fighting Sylvia in MMA. It was supposed to be a boxing rules fight. However, leave it to the greedy, corrupt MMA organizations and a piece of **** like Sylvia to change it to an MMA rules bout just days prior to the fight.

Mercer is a fighter though, he went in there when everything was against him and won.

Mercer is doing this MMA-k-1 because he cant get paid no more in boxing. Nobody cares about him, hes not good enough. That should alone tell you something.

 

So a gentlemans agreement with one man lieing is the only logical solution in the Kimbo fight, but completely impossible in the Sylvia fight?

I will take an official interview with Mercer saying "I know this is MMA, I am training MMA, I will fight MMA" over hearsay every time.

I said boxers shouldn't fight without the agreement to boxing rules. Every example outside of Sylvia (even though its a reasonable assumption that that one had a standup only agreement given 24 hours beforehand it was a boxing match), not that Boxers shouldn't ever fight. Basically I am saying boxers should box, how revolutionary and insulting right?

What the hell are you talking about not knowing the names of moves? Mercer started a shitty sweep from half guard after the first takedown, and tried a shitty arm-in guillotine, not great technique but he was obviously trained for and prepared for an MMA fight, why would he do this if he planned on just boxing?

I'm not dissing Mercer, I'm not belittling what he did, I'm certainly not belittling boxing. The truth of those 3 things is though, is that Mercer has shown he can land one big punch, and has shown he can be absolutely worthless if anything else happens, more times than not anything else will happen. Same goes for most boxers, can land one great shot early, but go downhill immediately.

 

So Lesnar shouldnt fight without a gentlemans agreement to wrestle. After all, he is only a wrestler. Does the same apply for Demain Maia? Palhares? Aoki? And considering Mercer was pushing 50 years old and actually managed to get up off the ground i'd say it was quite impressive.

Whats funny is that you think because he attempted a guillotine and a sweep that he actually had some formal training for this fight. The **** he did against Kimbo is completely instinctual. You really think applying a guillotine is rocket science?

Saying that this fight with Sylvia had some gentlemans agreement is absurd. Its not even worth discussing. Theres a reason why Mercer was so god damn pissed off at Sylvia and the MMA org.

And yes, boxers go downhill immediately in MMA. After all, there have been a TON of elite or even good, hell or even mediocre boxers who have transitioned to MMA.

You do know that a boxer isnt limited to boxing right? They can use other tools. A prime example is the K-1 fight featuring some crappy Japanese featherweight boxer Kazuhisa Watanabe who laid an absolute beatdown on Atsushi Yamamoto. I thought low kicks were supposed to cripple the boxer?

I think the funniest thing about this is that the way you support your argument of why boxers are worthless in MMA consists of Ray freaking Mercer who is god damn 50 years old who is a decade past his prime if not more. Honourable mentions go to the K-1 > boxing crowd who use Botha, Phillips, Mercer and Arthur Williams examples. Those are laughable as well.

Talk about grasping at straws.

 

Timmy from south park would stand more of a chance.