Is too much/not enough made of Marciano having being down twice?

Look, marciano was well matched, just like all sucsess storys. His career was timed so that he had enough in the tank to acheive what he did at world level and just like any other ATG this would not have been the case if he had of had too many competative 50-50 fights.

When he got to world level he was on his own and well prepared to face ATG fighters and #1 contenders who were good enough to be champions. geting knocked down was no disgrace. Because rocky had not suffered as many concusions as other fighters he coped well enough and passed the test.

The point is when great fighters hit each other on the chin great fighters geting knocked down is going to happen.

Its what hapens when you get up that counts.

 

I think way too much is made of him being knocked down. He was knocked down not out.

In fact, given his style, and size where he was always in range to be hit, it is actually astonishing that he was only ever down twice, and never being close to being out for the ten. Quite amazing really when you consider how much he is criticised for being down compared to the number of times Ali or even Sugar Ray Robinson are criticised for being down. Both of whom were in a lot more trouble than Rocky and both of whom have a style which means they should be a lot harder to hit than Rocky.

 

Nothing should be made of being dropped by Walcott IMO. Walcott ICED Ezzard Charles with the same single left hook; Rocky got up fairly quickly and was actually back on the attack before the round was even over.

Getting dropped by Moore was a bit more embarrassing IMO, as Moore wasn't really a one-shot artist at HW; but even so, Moore could hit and sh!t happens.

 

I guess the flip side of what you said about Walcott, is that maybe not enough is made of it?:think

 

Way too much is made.


Larry Holmes was floored by Kevin Issacs, Joe Frazier by michael bruce, jack dempsey by johnny suddenberg, Joe Louis by Jim Braddock, Muhammad Ali by Sonny Banks, etc.

 

"Embarrasing" might be bit of an overstatement. Like you said, Moore COULD hit. He is the all time knockout king for crying out loud. There is a sickening one punch kayo of 6'2 210lb Embrell Davidson. It came from an Archie Moore straight right hand. I think that punch, which landed as cleanly as it did, could fell a lot of big guys.

 

When you fight the best in the world you can get dropped. Walcott and Moore both had excellent timing, speed, snap, and vast experience. No shame in getting decked by those guys. Marciano got up and fought right back hard. I'd actually say that inures to his credit because it showed that he could take a really good one and come back to win.

 

They were both flash-knockdowns from fast timed punches he didn't see coming, & Rocky was not badly hurt from either.

In fact, was Marciano ever badly hurt? I would say no. :deal

 

/End thread

Okay, now we can end it.

 

Just shows he's human.

If people suggest he was anything but super durable and use the KD's against him, they are making too much of it.

But I see people suggesting they were flukes, and I have heard that on his best night no fighter is capable of putting Rocky down. In this case, its important to remember he's human. One of the toughest humans ever, but not a machine.

No more, no less.

 

Hatchetman Sheppard said Moore was the hardest hitter he ever competed against with both hands, and he took on Walcott and Moore in back to back contests a few weeks apart. (He also said JJW hit like a mule. Plenty here have read Alkazoff's story about him.) Ted Lowry also stated that Moore was his hardest punching opponent. Some believe that the hardest single shot Archie ever delivered was the right which floored Rocky. Nobody who's seen what the Mongoose did to Davidson should be questioning his one punch power (and most of us here have watched it). Take away the cuffs from all his bouts, and Archie likely breaks 150 kayos.

Rocky indicated in some interviews that he may never have been hit so hard as to see stars. Natural punch resistance combined with tremendous strength and conditioning would account for a great deal of that. He also seems to have had great vision in conjunction with those deceptively underrated defensive skills. I tend to come down on the side that maybe not enough is made of the fact he was only down twice. He stood up to numerous monstrous shots from Walcott after getting caught cold. Granted, he was decked by the two hardest punchers he ever fought, but both were ATGs at the top of their game, and they were flash knockdowns where he was never put on his back. He seemed virtually impervious. Louis and Charles still had very heavy guns when Marciano beat them conclusively. Savold, Vingo and Layne also carried decent power. Matthews rebounded from Marciano to hand Lowry his last of just three knockout losses in 144 bouts. Cockell produced multiple knockdowns of the rarely floored Matthews.

Marciano may have been fortunate to compete in an era where there weren't punchers like Shavers, Lyle and Foreman to contend with, but he dealt well with what sluggers were available to test him. Satterfield simply couldn't get past the likes of Layne and Charles to have a crack at Rocky. (Not that he had the necessary durability to compete with Marciano if the opportunity presented itself.)

 

Rocky did miss out on fighting a few of the major sluggers of his era (clarence henry, bob satterfield, nino valdes, earl walls) but I do think he fought some dangerous punchers. I would have liked to have seen him taken on Clarence Henry or Nino Valdes. He definitely did not duck either of them.

 

:good

 

Too much. He got up and not only beat them but stopped them. Says a lot of his heart.