Is Tyson clearly hurt?

yep its bizarre that some dont see it, or want to. in some cases it could be agenda related, some fans don't like admitting iron chinned Tyson was hurt so early, and his detractors don't like to admit Tyson was so past his best to be buzzed that early. either way, the fact is he was effected by that punch. Cobra been kicking my ass in some areas but not this lol.

I can agree that Ruddock's punches were different and the effect could have been. The Holyfield punch was a very short one that had that strange effect on a usually iron chinned Tyson. but in general Tyson was taking some huge punches from Ruddock and seemed a lot more comfortable about it than in 96.

thanks for posting that clip, I not heard the Reg Gutteridge commentary for a while. not trying to derail the subject but its interesting they point to the areas where Tyson was lacking in comparison to his prime. This was early in the fight as well, they were already saying how much easier Tyson was to hit than in his hey day. although not related to the 91 debate as he was hit pretty easy there as well.

 

Holyfield was near-enough shot to **** in 1996. That was known way before the fight started. Tyson was in a bad way too, of course, but physically Holyfield was worse. Mental strength was the difference really, and it's just a clash of styles. I think Holyfied would have always beat Tyson. And that's partly due to how much respect Holyfield had for Tyson's abilites. Evander would have always found that bit extra.

Most the people who think prime Tyson wipes the floor with prime Holyfield tend to think prime Tyson wipes the floor with virtually everyone, so that figures. And therefore is never much of a resolvable argument.

 

its more about being objective about it. Both extremes are wrong in my eyes. I cant see how Holyfield was near shot in 96 when he pulled out a few decent performances after the 96 fight and gave Lewis a decent scrap in their rematch. he wasn't at his best but near shot is way off. I'd agree Tyson and Holyfield both had their problems in 96 and Evander's mental strength was a factor and possibly always would be.

 

Well, near shot or clearly/significantly past prime.
How would you describe it ?
And how about Tyson in 1996 ? He was past it too.

 

I don't think Evander was shot in 96, although he was past his best. Ironically he looked totally shot a few fights before. but in 96 he seemed to regain some decent form and did well for a few fights after. not at his best but not totally shot either in mid 90s in my view anyway.

I think Tyson was not at his best in 96 but with better preparation I think he could have had a better comeback. I think he had more mental issues than physical. he wasn't making the decisions you would think a truly motivated fighter would on his return after prison. to not have a great trainer getting him back into form was a major problem, and he had access to this. trainers were falling over themselves, but he chose to go it alone and basically train himself. against guys of Holyfield's statue that was a very dumb move, Tyson was in cuckoo land and thought his reputation and power was enough, it wasn't.

 

I think Holyfield definitely had enough left to raise himself for Tyson in 1996-97 and for Lewis rematch in 1999 but he still looked severely limited by the sheer miles on the clock.
If you look at all his fights around that time he looked old and tired, unable to put out his vintage workrate and prone to gas badly and looked a bit ill even.

Tyson was a fairly simple assignment for him, it turned out, - simple based on styles, but not easy. He was so in control he didn't have time to get himself messed up. Compared to his next fight with Moorer (rematch), where despite flooring Moorer multiple times and stopping him he had some terrible moments where he looked confused and fading badly.

Holyfield's bad condition is no surprise considering he'd be in loads of tough or top-level fights since 1986, and had already "retired" twice before the Tyson fight.

Tyson certainly needed more rounds under his belt before taking on Holyfield but reasonably Holyfield at that stage wasn't expected to go longer than 4 or 5.
Bowe had stopped Holyfield in 8 the previous year and Tyson had blown away Bruno in 3 (quicker than he'd done in '89) so people were expecting a fairly quick win for Tyson but with Hoyfield making a competitive effort (unlke Seldon !).

Despite everything, Tyson and Holyfield were still among the very best elite heavyweights in 1996 and that doesn't say much for the way the division was then, since neither of them was naturally built for longevity stylistically.

 

Isn't it funny hearing Reg Gutteridge calling Tyson and Holyfield big Heavyweights.

 

Tyson looked a bit lost after than punch though. Looked a bit disoriented.

You conceded in a previous post that it might have got his neck, so your version of events (your observation) is more fluid and uncertain that you're making out.

A chopping punch to the neck or the shoulder/neck area can hurt anyway, i'd say. There are nerves and vulnerable points in those areas too.

Whatever, something made Tyson go all silly lurching around flinching back and doing some crappy footwork.

 

I can't tell where it landed exactly.
Even if I could see it 100% certain like you and others (mostly opposing views to yours) are claiming, it wouldn't tell me if Tyson was "hurt" or not.
It's not clear to me either way.
Tyson clearly looks like a man getting beat/out-boxed there though, but maybe I'm prejudiced by the fact I've seen the fight.

 

I can't believe you can't see that the punch land and that it has an effect on Tyson, you are one of a very few who refuse to see this. I suppose Czyz, Gutteridge and most on here are wrong too, hell even Holyfield was too.....