Is Tyson really susceptible to the traditional boxer?

Holyfield was a solid 215 plus pounds and was on Peds ,had trained literally his entire career for Tyson and caught Tyson on his down slide ,even though Tyson would have beat 99% of HW's that night. Old worn holy also pushed Lewis harder than Tyson did, the same Lewis who went toe to toe with Vitali minus trained harder for Holyfield.

 

Tyson was heavier and also on PEDs, your point is....

Literally trained his life for Tyson, you don't half talk some rubbish pal.

 

My point is holy is 6'2 Tyson is 5'10 not built for heavier weight. What is your proof Tyson was on Peds? Did you see Holys neck and trap size? Who was caught getting PEDS delivered to his house before his neck grew like the size of my waist? lol

Tyson and Holy used to train together briefly he was the reason holy moved to HW ,you don't know your boxing history as good as me kid. the fight was supposed to happen around late 80's early 90's holy was obsessed with beating him.

 

I'm also firmly of the belief that Douglas won by what he did right, not what Tyson did wrong. But I wouldn't call it something as straightforward as a blueprint. Besides feinting and timing Tyson, he also - as JohnThomas said - wasn't afraid to let his hands go and he had the strength to handle Tyson in the clinches and rough him up on the inside. And when Tyson landed he didn't just cover up and/or retreat but responded in kind. This had to do as much with his confidence as his physicality in there. He did things no one had done to Tyson before.

So he fought more or less the perfect fight technically, tactically, physically and psychologically. Same with Holy. But few could tick all those boxes. That's why Tyson continued to destroy guys like Stewart, Ruddock, Bruno, Seldon and Golota until eventually running into Lewis and old age.

 

Great post. To beat Tyson you have to be willing to lay it all on the line. You have to do the opposite of what instinct tells you to do a lot of the time. When Tyson opened up against most, they went on the complete defensive and his often unique angles and combinations made them lambs to the slaughter. Douglas and Holyfield often let rip with him, even after being tagged as you say. Let him have his way and you are toast, he's an incredible offensive machine. You have to halt him and make him pay at regular enough intervals. Tyson was also great when other led as he came in, ducking and countering extremely effectively.

The only real time he was open was when he was punching!!! He barely got hit when he first exploded onto the scene against Berbick and co. When the rare good single punch landed as per Tucker and Bruno it was big news. Unless you have enormous physical assets and the ability to impliment them you need to go with him a decent amount of the time.

 

The thing Douglas, Holyfield, and Lewis did similarly was sit down on their punches. The guys he beat up wouldn't set their feet to throw shots.

 

They were too afraid of being countered to do that.

 

I thought Tucker made a pretty good effort.

 

Tyson's valid loses were Buster Douglas and Holyfield, imo. I think attitude had more to do with it than boxing ability, you obviously need that as well but without the incredible will to win it doesn't hold up. those guys had unbelievable will and determination to win those fights, more than Tyson did. A slugger with that will could do the same conceivably.

the guys that did well or survived with Mike were happy with just that, they didn't push the extra mile or really believe they could actually do it, Tucker for instance did well but that ball out will to win wasn't there, he would never have beaten him. Tyson gets a lot of stick but at his best he did have great will to win, you dont dominate for nearly half a decade without it, but those that beat him had even more will on those given nights and diminished his own presence in the fight, he shrunk.

he never gave up but he couldn't get back in the fight once he was tamed a bit, put that fire out and Tyson is in trouble. thats why I find his loses fascinating, from total confidence in his invariability you can see his confidence ebb away, as much as he tried he couldn't regain control. but the same can be said of other great fighters loses though.

 

When comparing Tucker's effort against that of Douglas, I find that the main difference is Douglas's ability to handle Tyson physically. You can see this as early as the first round in both fights. While Tyson pushes Tucker off when he tries to hold early on, Douglas pushes Tyson away. And when Tyson lands he doesn't move away, hold or cover up, but responds in kind.

Douglas's ability to handle Tyson physically means that he doesn't retreat like Tucker does, instead he holds the centre of the ring. He moves and gives angles, but doesn't retreat, which enables him to set himself and let his hands go and take the initiative in a wholly different way.

 

Douglas showed more initiative and maintained it over the distance. That's true.
Tucker's main problem, I think, was that he wasn't hitting Tyson hard enough and then he slowed down after a few rounds. He landed plenty of punches early but didn't put enough on them. He cited a bad hand but that's boxing.
I think his strength and ability to handle Tyson physically was adequate. Tyson had the superior pep in his punches and intensity over the distance.
All credit to Tyson.

 

No, he didn't put enough on them and he didn't take them as well as Douglas either. I think had a lot to with Douglas having both the physicality and the confidence to let himself get set.

Douglas went out there with purpose and confidence, and it only increased when he found out that he really had the strength to handle Tyson in the clinches and the power and chin to trade when he had to.

 

Yeah, a war torn Holyfield...who won another World Title only to come a draw and a close verdict away from becoming Undisputed World Heavyweight Champion against another ATG within the next 3 years. Yeah, Holyfield was a complete war torn piece of ****, yet Mike Tyson would never win a title again until his untimely retirement that happened out of nowhere. Yeah, Holyfield was worse than a rusty, returning form prison with less than 8 rounds in the bank Mike Tyson who was so good that he should've been prime anyways.

 

Tucker's main problem was that he fought a better prepared Tyson than Douglas did. Bottom line.

 

He won those titles because he was a better fighter than Mike Tyson full stop. Prison saved Tyson from some career killing defeats. Imagine what affect that would have had on Tyson's mentality. Holyfield had Tyson's number whichever way you look at it.....