Is Usyk an all-time-great fighter?

What exactly does it say?

 

Ray Leonard's first eight opponents had 49 losses in total.

Hearns' first eight opponents had over 80 losses in total.

 

Like you pointed out NEETzschean ...

Usyk was a 211-pound heavyweight who was getting paid to fight other heavyweights in the WSB. Usyk was about 35 pounds heavier than Holyfield when Evander turned pro.

Like I said, when Holyfield was a cruiserweight, the weight limit was 190. When Usyk decided to "move down" to cruiser, the limit had been bumped up 10 pounds to 200.

And he could never manage to dry out any lower 198. Which he only did twice.

Usyk never could've been a cruiserweight in Holyfield's day. He couldn't have made 190.

Holyfield was a light heavy who moved up to cruiserweight and then heavyweight and became World Heavyweight Champion.

Usyk is a guy who was a heavyweight, surveyed the landscape and decided he could dry out for weigh-ins so he moved down.

It is what it is.

So all this stuff about Usyk moving up and comparing him with Holyfield moving up is silly.

Usyk has been fighting pro heavyweights since 2013. He didn't move up. He just quit drying out and moving down.

It isn't an apples to apples comparison.

 

i thought the implications were obvious. evander is a naturally smaller man than usyk, yet he was able to go up to hw, knock the crap out of guys much better than chisora, and become the man.

 

You aren't comparing apples and apples.

Usyk was a shade under 27 when he turned pro, Holyfield was a shade over 22. By the time he was a shade under 27, Evan Fields was 207-212 lbs aka the same weight as Usyk. When Holyfield was 20 in the amateurs he was fighting at light heavyweight but when Usyk was 20 in the amateurs he was fighting Shawn Porter at 165 lbs.

At 22 years old Usyk could have easily made 190 lbs. Usyk is bigger than Holyfield but so is his opposition: top cruisers and heavyweights are significantly taller and heavier than they were 30 years ago.

 

Holyfield's cruiser and sub-cruiser record was 18-0 with a 78% KO ratio. He beat the cr*p out of men his own size and smaller.

Holyfield's heavyweight record was a Chisora-esque 26-2-10 with 1 no contest and a rather poor 36% KO ratio. Holyfield lost all 5 fights with elite SHW's, in which he was dropped 3 times and stopped once but got two gifts.

Still, Holyfield sets the mark above Haye for cruiser success at HW. But if a near 35 year old Usyk stops AJ away from home that will change.

 

Him ever becoming an all time great is completely dependent on what he does at heavyweight just like it did with Holyfield

 

Are you seriously comparing Holyfields heavyweight run to Chisoras career?

 

that doesnt contradict anything i wrote. he was smaller than usyk is, and he beat better heavies than chisora. none of your numbers change that basic fact.

 

Haye is eligible already for the next ballot - with the voting to take place this autumn.

But even if he's put on the ballot, there's practically 0 chance he will get in on the first try. On the next ballot Roy Jones Jr. is certain to be included... and with Cotto and Toney left over from last year, I can't imagine Haye will be a first ballot inductee.

 

Holyfield's best victories at HW were 41 year old Foreman, 42.5 year old Holmes and post-Douglas, post-prison Tyson all on neutral ground. To say they are better than 37 year old, 255 lbs Chisora in Britain is speculation. Holyfield's HW career was very long but if post-prime, away from home Usyk beats AJ he will have surpassed Holyfield's best win as Holyfield was too small to deal with an elite super-heavyweight.

 

Who has Chisora beaten ? I remember him getting clapped by Haye back in his prime and toyed with by Pulev. Also Holyfield beat Ray Mercer and Hasim Rahman and he was ahead on the scorecards before the stoppage in the Rahman fight so no excuses. He also got robbed against Nikolai Valuev at the old ass age of 46 for the wba belt

 

why stop there, guy? why not just make chisora better than tyson, holyfield, holmes, all of em? just make usyk the goat right now for beating chisora. i mean, if logic dont apply, why limit yourself? who cares if they aint never worn a belt at hw, whats it matter?

 

see why its a waste of time talking the intricacies of boxing here?

 

There's no illogic if the heavyweight fringe contenders of today are better than the national cruiser champions of 40-50 years ago.