is Usyk the definition of "no filler fights"

'Natural weight class', everyone cuts a little weight to make their 'natural' weight class, it's more about proportions than actual or exact weight. Usyk rehydrated less than 10lbs most of the time which isn't exactly a lot even in lower weight classes.

Regardless, the easier way to address the point is to look at Usyk at heavyweight. Most all of the people he's going to be fighting are significantly taller, longer, or heavier than him - often all three. It's the unlimited weight class, it's 'natural' for the people who struggle to make 200. Usyk could probably have dehydrated down to 200 for the Joshua fight.

Wilder is an anomaly, hence why people have commented so many times on how little he actually weighs in at, hence why it's the most salient example you could think of. Even so, he's 6'7" with an 83" reach and freakish power, his weight alone is rarely relevant - he clearly just feels comfortable with that weight. He probably would struggle to make 200lbs today given how lean he is, and is certainly at no disadvantage at heavyweight purely because of his weight. If you want to see Wilder at CW look at Okolie.

Are you really going to argue that a 6'3", 78", 220 pound mover is as natural a heavyweight as a 6'7", 83", 220 pound power puncher? Again, it's not just a question of weight but a question of proportion.

You wonder why they even bother with weight classes where people can fault someone for fighting people of similar proportions at 200lbs - just because they might rehydrate another 10lbs - when they could fight people much taller, longer, and usually 20-50lbs heavier than they are in the unlimited weight class and lose years off their life even if they win everything.

 

Huh, I wonder why?

Is it because the Heavyweight division consists of guys that are significantly larger and heavier than him ... because it's not his natural weight class?

I mean ... do you really think that the stated Weight Class limit is actually supposed to refer to 'walking around weight?' How many boxers come in near that? Do you even follow boxing?

But regardless, reading comprehension. I said 'not easy', I didn't say 'not easier' - you can definitely argue it's harder at HW because of the size difference, but skill wise (which is what I was discussing) the CWs he faced made it a tough division.

 

If you weigh 215-220-pounds when you step into the ring after rehydrating ... you are a heavyweight.

So the question becomes why are you drying out to make cruiserweight when you could be fighting at heavyweight?

Your response seems to be because IT'S EASIER fighting guys your own size. And I agree with you. It is easier.

I think Usyk fought and Okolie fights at cruiserweight because it's easier.

Wilder took the harder route. Wilder hasn't outweighed an opponent in almost nine years. And he stiill became the WBC Heavyweight champion, made 10 successful title defenses, and is fighting the biggest and best heavyweight in the world for the third time this Saturday.

Instead of "praising" people for taking the easier route ... let's not forget to acknowledge people who didn't.

 

Well, while some boxers openly claim that they are 150 lbs + while competing in 135 lbs division, then weight cuts for CW divsion looks small. Usually.
in 135 lbs you might be 145 lbs in the ring for IBF title, imagine difference between some CW boxers 202-209 lbs in the ring? Okey, some might be larger. Not likely more than 220 lbs.

_________
CW division then also had WBSS tournament, where they didn't had rematch clauses.
If you had one belt and had won opponent who had belt from one other org, you just simply move forward to next opponent.
This was way how Usyk was able to be undisputed in CW division.

Imagine if they had clauses?

 

Heavyweights do. And Usyk is A HEAVYWEIGHT.

It's actually the only weight class where people fight at a weight they walk around at.

It used to be ALL the weight classes, until they moved weigh-ins from the day of the fight (often the afternoon of the fight) back 30 hours before a fight in the 90s.

But cruiserweight isn't SUPER FEATHER. The next weight division up is unlimited.

So if you dry out to 200, and then enter the ring at 215-220, the question for guys like Usyk and Okolie become why are you being such a pussies and fighting at cruiserweight?

If you think you are actually the best, then fight at heavyweight and don't dry out.

 

Heavyweights walk around at 240+lbs, not at 220lbs.

Regardless of what 'has changed', the fact is that this is the competition. Cruiserweights are 210, 220, sometimes 230 pound guys. Heavyweights are usually 240-270 pounds, and often 6'4"+ with 80"+ reaches. Usyk was fighting guys his own size, no advantages, no disadvantages: that's your natural weight class and it's the sensible weight class. It's not the 'easy' weight class, certainly not with guys like Briedis, Gassiev, Hunter, Glowacki etc.

The main reason smaller fighters go to HW is because there's more money in it, not because they 'want to take on all challenges', challenges are found in your weight division until you clear it out ... which Usyk did. How many cruiserweights do you genuinely believe fought in the modern supersized heavyweight division because of your ideal 'challenge' psychology? None is the correct answer, and of course none of them had success in the modern division anyway.

The jump between CW and HW is huge nowadays, much larger than between any other weight classes even proportionally. You have to be very good to even compete with that kind of size disadvantage, and even then you're likely going to take much more punishment than it's worth.

You just seem to be arguing for its own sake. Surely you acknowledge that there's nothing in what you're saying. The point of weight classes is to allow competition with people of a similar size. If you think CW was 'easy' for Usyk it's only because he's extremely good, and he proved that with his recent accomplishments at HW.

But you're not impressed because you think he should have been fighting at a big size disadvantage from the beginning? Nonsense.

 

Wilder walks around at 220 pounds. Usyk walks around at 220 pounds.

They fought in the amateurs together. The competed in the same weight class in the same Olympics. They would've fought in the semifinals of the 2008 Olympics, but Usyk lost in the Quarterfinals.

They both turned pro at heavyweight. Wilder remained at heavyweight. Usyk moved down.

Wilder held the WBC Heavyweight title for five years and made 10 successful title defenses. He's fighting the World Champion (who Wilder successfully defended against the first time) for the third time in a couple days.

Usyk won three of the belts against Joshua just over a week ago.

Usyk has proven he was certainly capable of winning. So the question is WHY did Usyk wait so long? Why did he move down? If he was good enough to win it all, why did he wait until he was nearly 35 years old?

Why did he waste all those years? Because it was easier? Is that the answer? That's what you seem to think. I agree.

In 2016, when the question is "Do you want to dry out and challenge Glowacki for a title, or do you want to fight Tyson Fury or Deontay Wilder for a heavyweight title?" ...

And you choose Glowacki, that's the easier choice.

Getting back to the topic of the thread, if you're Usyk and you choose to go after Glowacki at cruiserweight instead of Wilder or Fury at heavyweight ...

Does that make Glowacki "filler?"

If Usyk could've been a heavyweight champion five years ago, yeah, kinda does.

Wilder's last 10 fights were better competition. That's all I'm saying. It's pretty clear.

You even admit it's easier to fight people your own size. You know. Everyone knows.

But when it's clear Wilder's last 10 were far better than Usyk's, in a thread designed to praise Usyk, people feel compelled to deny the truth.

Mike Tyson was even quoted in another article saying he wanted to see Wilder and Usyk fight next, and the guy who posted the article titled it "Tyson Calls Wilder a Journeyman."

That's how absurd it's gotten on this board. Wilder has faced and continues to face better competition.

Gotta go.

 

We've already discussed Wilder mate, why are we back to this? He's an anomaly, as in - he doesn't represent the data. He prefers to weigh light but he's also 6'7", 83", extreme power - how would that look at Cruiserweight?

How is fighting the best and unifying the belts at your weight class 'wasting time'?

Do you understand the concept of wear and tear? The punches you take at HW have more of an impact than those at CW regardless of the skill of either party. Of course, if you're a similar size - it isn't such a big deal. You spend that time at HW at a big size disadvantage, working your way up the ranks, taking far more damage simply because of the size and weight difference, and then ending up in the same position: only without the CW achievements, and with much more wear and tear.

Is that the smarter choice? Is it cowardly to prefer to fight people your own size and then take the mandatory and immediately fight the champs at the unlimited weight?

If it's harder at HW it's because it's not his natural weight class ... he's at a height, reach, weight disadvantage in some combination in every match up. The competition at Heavyweight is much slower and less skilled than at CW. Usyk would have a pretty easy time in the ring with them but it often means going twelve rounds and taking more damage per punch - why opt for that?

If you're Wilder you just hold them away with your massive arms and height, and bang them out with your massive power - Wilder would probably have a harder time against the Cruisers Usyk fought than the slow punching bags he has a habit of knocking over.

 

Because he did it at cruiserweight instead of heavweight.

He just won three belts at heavyweight. What if he did that in 2016 instead of 2021? Joshua was easier to beat in 2016 than he is now, right?

Usyk made $50,000 to $100,000 in cruiserweight title fights. He could've been making millions defending heavyweight titles.

I don't know how you could consider it NOT a waste unless you don't think he was good enough to beat Fury, Wilder and Joshua.

Wilder's worth 10 times what Usyk is worth, Wilder is one of the most successful defending heavyweight champions in boxing history ... and most people here seem to think Usyk is better than Wilder.

Wouldn't you have rather seen Usyk-Wilder for all the heavyweight titles and tens of millions of dollars in 2017 instead of Usyk-Huck?

Seems like an incredible waste.

What if what happened against Usyk and Joshua last Saturday happened in 2016? What if Usyk had faced Czar Glazkov for the vacant title and Joshua fought Usyk instead of Charles Martin for the vacant IBF heavyweight title?

How different would everything be?

I assumed Usyk would lose to Joshua. So I assumed he didn't fight at heavyweight because he didn't think he could win. I WAS WRONG. Usyk won.

So the question becomes what was he doing at cruiser?

History isn't made at cruiserweight. It's made at heavyweight.

Stop distracting me. I've got to work.

 

Most likely yeah, question is who had gave him HW title fight if he wasn't WBO HW mandatory because he was WBO CW champion?
For you even this reality is difficult to understand.

You might use sportekz or other portals till your death and insist that he is poor etc. Do it, you never will improve. Never!

If you evalue ppl only by their net worth, these boxers are not richest ppl in US and you should start to lurk at other fields ppl net worth.
You didn't get even this.

Sit down kid with your american approach: only HW rullz and other does not rullz.

Wilder's legacy is worse than Usyk's legacy despite his f**** net worth : only thing you value.
Wilder had only 1 belt: WBC belt and he never had legacy like even Foreman or Frazier for sure: he never was UNDISPUTED.
NEVER.

Sit and enjoy net worth with pleasure: only thing you value in reality.
Only alone thing.

If we are talking about net worth, then US does have xxxxx ppl with higher net worth than Wilder does have.

 

So you're saying Usyk could have achieved the same thing but slightly earlier (in theory, though remember that politics could have intruded) and without the recognition and historicity his CW achievements brought him ... and probably a shorter lifespan from going so many rounds against larger men?

And more money. Only Usyk explicitly doesn't care that much about money, if he did there are probably more lucrative options both in and out of boxing. Plus ... he's an EE, Wilder is an American, there will always be a huge financial difference.

I can't see anything other than Usyk's career path through Cruiser being the smarter option.

What was he doing at Cruiser? Fighting people his own size.

History isn't made at Cruiserweight? It already has been.

And soz.

 

I'm saying if you are the Olympic Heavyweight Gold medalist, if you are fighting Super Heavyweights and beating them in the World Series of Boxing, if you turn pro at heavyweight ...

Unifying the heavyweight title and making tens of millions seems like the goal ...

Not dropping down to cruiserweight and making tens of thousands of dollars. So why waste time doing that?

And heavyweights don't have shorter life spans than fighters in other divisions. I don't know where the hell you pulled that from.

 

Sure.

Of course and guys in EE does knows this: to be a prizefighter is not popular choice for career in EE like ppl might assume.

 

He fought below CW-equivalent in the amateurs for a time, won gold at Heavyweight (Cruiserweight), and then fought in the WSB at Super-Heavyweight ... but he was still essentially a Cruiser here and did it for ... challenge? Experience? Then he turned pro at his own size.

I don't see why you find it so strange an idea to fight at your own size. Do that, get the pro experience, get the credit, get the mandatory, then take the heavyweight titles with less wear and tear. Don't start your career punching up, fighting at a disadvantage simply because some people aren't interested in your division.

It was the goal to unify Heavyweight ... after unifying Cruiserweight.

He doesn't care about money again. And you're still assuming that an EE would be incredibly marketable at HW.

If you're going twelve rounds with guys much bigger than you, taking much heavier punches ... you're going to have a shorter lifespan. Both in boxing terms and in whole-life terms. I 'pulled that from' common sense reasoning.

But all of this hinges on the fact that you personally don't consider Cruiserweight to be a valuable division. I can only assume by the concurrent reasoning that you also don't really care about anyone else below Heavyweight (why not just bulk up and fight the best?), and you don't understand the prestige of being a multi-weight champion (they were just wasting time in the lower divisions)?
Cruiserweight is less respected because: it's new, it has fewer notable personalities to attract attention, it's largely dominated by less-marketable non-English speakers.

Again though, you just seem to be arguing for its own sake now. I won't complain if you have to give this a break and get some work done.

 

It is considered as puny cruiserweight in US since Holyfield had moved up to HW.
It is what it is: US based boxers like Cunningham, Dorticos and Tabiti too had their first best paid and notable fights in europe not in US.
US = cruiserweight is overlooked division.