Is Usyks greatness debatable?

Most people on classic don't follow current boxing closely, and so just don't know how good the cruiserweight division has been over the last ten years. Usyk's résumé will always be underrated in that regard IMO.

 

Why should it be questioned? Usyk swept the Cruiserweight competition and defeated natural heavyweight Joshua to take his belts...

 

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Oh, they both definitely are. My point was CW is not a "glamour" division, for most standouts it's a pit stop to HW. There aren't a whole lot of guys that make a career out of CW. That's one reason why I think people question some of Usyk's "greatness".

Gassiev himself is a HW now also no?

 

Not really.

He's very clearly an ATG, but the level of ATG has yet to be determined. Right now, he's still operating around Holyfield's level or so on my provisional list. I could see an argument for being rated around the same level as Michael Spinks (who makes my top 30 all time). The only thing that might hold him back for a higher rating at present is the limited number of pro fights and the lack of a truly great opponent (right now, anyway). We'll see how it goes.

 

Top drawer post! Compare this to a clown like Wilder or Furey. Usyk is in a league of his own.

 

Usyk is probably the best cruiserweight ever.

But people going around saying with confidence that he'd beat Ali, Lewis at HW.... he is getting overhyped just a bit.

Lets wait until he faces some real adversity, and fights an opponent close to those ATG's you are saying he'd beat.

 

In terms of how I assess these things, he was a borderline great before moving up in weight, despite being obviously one of the short-listers at cruiserweight. But after two Joshua victories, either he's obviously a great fighter, or I think you're painfully undervaluing Joshua because he's kind of not cool on the forum. I mean, he's a major star who has made major star money, but on the boxing forum, I feel he's so undervalued because he's not "cool" anymore that it's actually cringe-worthy. It's like your friends think Elvis is a hack and now they can't even admit he was talented, and they're so far gone they can't admit that he was handsome and almost universally lusted after in his prime. Everything is off the table now, because he's not cool to your group. You just can't give him anything. Anyway, Usyk is at least great. The discussion between great and all-time great then becomes the semantic black hole you get sucked in by. All this is aside from the fact that I have mocked Usyk fandom and only partly because I found it overwhelming at some point and mostly because he just oddly reminds me of the weird Irish guy from Braveheart and I don't believe a great fighter should seem like that guy. But I still respect it, you know? Like, it seems wrong, but I respect it, Kirk. Is any of this making sense?

 

What I'm saying is, if I don't find it debatable, it's not. But I don't know if I don't. So, it is. Unless I figure that out about myself and what I believe to my own soul.

 

Atg cruiser and if he beats Fury that puts him in the ATG Hw Talks as well.