Is Vitali Klitschko an ATG?

1. Wills competed in a worse era and feasted on older men

2. Corbett and Fitz were ancient and had primitive styles, Jeffries still struggled. Sharkey/Jackson/Goddard all nothing special

3. Moore is not an ATG HW and he was old, Johanssen is the other top name and a quality win. The rest are rubbish

4. Patterson is a quality win but hes a natural LHW. Williams wasnt even ranked and has few top wins, the rest arent particularly special

5. Dempseys resume is frankly ****, Gibbons and Sharkey are good wins agreed though, I like that you've included a man who was literally dying on his wins list

I don't rate Vitali's resume particularly highly but Sanders/Peter compare favourably to the best punchers on those lists. I see Sanders himself beating most of Dempseys/Pattersons win list. Johnson/Hide are 2 of the fastest out of all those fighters. Both Johnsons have slicker skills than most the fighters on those lists. Gomez is a quality boxer and ex cruser champ as was Norris. Danny Williams always had great talent but was lazy but maybe fulfilled some of that potential against an Ancient Tyson.

Not a great list of names but none of those men had great resumes

 

:good

 

Wlad's resume is pretty strong, Vitali's is just solid. Byrd is only behind Lewis in terms of success during their now respected era, and Wlad dominated him twice. Wlad cleaned out a class of his than well regarded peers in McCline, Jefferson, Shufford,and Barrett. First to stop tough fighters like Schulz, Mercer, and Brewster. Beat than respected contenders Brock and Peters. And though you may consider them average, he united the to be recoginzed as undisputed #1 by beating alphabet title holders Sultan and Chageav. Or you can just lump Wlad's weaker wins with Vitali's to unfairly drag him down?

 

Easy to avoid uppercuts when Bowe can't get on the inside and isn't throwing them. Golota's high guard was always pathetic and left him open to flush shots down the middle..see Lewis. Good enough to deflect Bowe's loopy right though. Unlike Vitali, no head movement. Golota had one moment of solid body work when he was frustrated that he couldn't stop a dead on his feet Bowe, gassing himself more than anything...I guess his low blows throughout the fight was effective. Yeah, Golota was faster on his feet than Vitali but he wouldn't need to be as the mostly stationary Bowe isn't going anywhere anyway.

 

I don't know, I see Bowe's bombing right and get bad memories of Kirk Johnson..yeah, he was a whale and a little shorter but like Bowe he had a fantastic left and that loopy bombing right that Vitali was just effortlessly slipping and countering..despite it still being really really quick.

Yeah, the motivated Bowe that beat Holyfield is going to be a tough fight for anybody in history. But chances are if Vitali and Bowe ever met, that guy wouldn't show up. Thats the way I look at it. Bowe just wasn't very consistent on the top.

 

Thats a tough comparison. Bowe could fight in the inside very well. He threw mean uppercuts and short hooks inside. He was a world class top notch fighter when he was in shape. Kirk Johnson in my opinion never resembled anything close, not to mention, he didnt really accomplish too much at any level close to what Bowe did, whose level of opposition is often questioned on this forum.

 

Bowe certianly wouldn't fold like Johnson after getting tagged clean either, but that wasn't the point. I limited my analogy to their style of bombing loopy right hands which is very comparable. You think that would be a key weapon for Bowe against Vitali, I must strongly disagree. Lewis' rocket like right hands would be much more effective, he was at least able to cut Vitali with one at any rate.

 

Wasnt it the uppercut inside that did the most damage to Vitali? I think it was in the fourth or fifth? Either way, Vitali leans back with his head up in the air, to me thats spells trouble against a guy who is about the same height and threw a good jab and overhand right to get inside where he likes to operate. Thats what Lewis did, he took some punishment, but once he closed the gap the fight started to turn quickly.
The closest thing Vitali has faced to Riddick Bowe is Lennox Lewis, so its kind of hard to say what Vitali would be able to do.
Golota is a bad example with Lewis because he never wanted to be in the ring in the first place, and just like Vitali was beating Lewis, Golota was beating Bowe, worse, but still eventually folded because of the pressure Bowe was bringing.

 

Yeah, aside from his clinch punching; Lewis appeared to have the most success with the uppercut. Vitali did slip a few, but he got surprised by a few really great ones. I would have more faith if Bowe was able to get the uppercut off more against bigger more capable men but Golota held him at bay with his jab and Gonzales was big enough to clinch him. Vitali could do both. Holyfield took his worst shots working inside with Bowe, cause he was too small to clinch effectively and well..Evander didn't like consistently boxing behind his jab for god knows what reason.

Leaning back or not, Vitali has proven to be excellent at anticpating looping right hands and avoid them. Bowe's right isn't something I would bet on. Vitali is a hard guy to jab too. Maybe Bowe could sneak in some uppercuts or short hooks? Really, I don't think either of are entitled to eye rolling in this case, Vitali vs. Bowe seems like it would be a really interesting match and a good test for both fighters. What really bothers me is that despite being tough Bowe was so easy to hit and Vitali is so busy, accurate, and strong. There's going to be a huge punches landed diffrential and I'm not sure Bowe has the precision, timing, and power of Lewis to make up for it.

I think Golota beat Golota. He folded because he couldn't knock Bowe out and like a true unstable nutjob had to "lowblow the sonuvabitch" He was even intentionally heabutting as early as the second round out of frustration....right after the first knockdown didn't seal the deal. Guy had ability but was totally out of his mind. I also don't cut Bowe as much slack as others because he had a chance at a rematch where he knew what to expect, but he made the same mistakes, and walked away with more excuses..."Uh, I overtrained this time."

 

There might be some underwhelming names there but its not like Vitali has any better. And it not a matter of what would happen if Gibbons fought Arreola you don't get regarded as an all time great on fictional head to head match ups. The fact is Arreola has beaten nobody and Gibbons has many quality wins and 80 years on people still talk about him Arreola will probably be forgotten in 8 years let alone 8 decades.

 

This content is protected

This content is protected

This content is protected

This content is protected

This content is protected

This content is protected

This content is protected

This content is protected

This content is protected

This content is protected

This content is protected

This content is protected

This content is protected

This content is protected

This content is protected

This content is protected

This content is protected

This content is protected

This content is protected

This content is protected

This content is protected

 

1. Come on man Miske was in a terrible state and had 33-1 odds, Miske at his best may have been pretty good but he was in a worse state than Holyfield is today when he faced Dempsey, the win is meaningless

2. Klit fans overrate Sanders, but he was coming off a win over Wlad who many rate top20 of all time already. Many rate Wlad over Vitali so that wins important and Sanders had to be rated top3 when they squared off. Vitali also beat Peter with less bother than Wlad and beat Purrity, which is less important but still

3. Gomez was rightfully top 5 at HW though, 44-1 coming into the fight earning his mandatory position. But like Moore past prime when Vitali got to him, Vitali was past prime himself too though

4. Patterson is quality I rate him highly on a P4P scale, his 1 round KO losses to Liston hurts him. Moore at HW isnt quite as impressive

5. Pictures of Jeffries pre-Johnson and afterwards disprove he ever went up to the 330lbs he claims and exposes it as nothing but an excuse or pre-excuse

6. You've listed a couple of pretty poor names, Firpo is an unskilled strong man, Meehan a club fighter. Denver Martin was shot, Langford was blind for many of their 17/21 fights, Mcvey/Jeannette past prime, Fulton/Norfolk were chinny at HW. All things considered Wills does have better wins, in terms of dominance, which is also part of resume Vitali catches him up

7. You know the more I think about it, I agree Vitali's opposition does miss names, although many didnt want a piece of him on his assent to the top. Some factors you need to:

A. Dominance of wins
B. Longevity
C. Losses (Klitschko has losses but the manner of defeat helps him especially against Byrd and the Lewis fight was a quality war I think Lennox would have won regardless of cuts)
D. Lets also bare in mind Vitali may yet scalp names like Haye/Solis

I may come across as a Klithugger but if you're familiar with my posts I've been a massive Klitschko critic over the years, I now think hes a top20/15 HW for sure though.

And yes Head 2 Head is an important factor because we like to think 'who would be the best of all time'.

 

Good evening Sir.
If thats the case, you should have been able to systematically refute it ,instead of copping out with your glib non answer.
I ask you again if the division is even moderate ,how come all these recycled old men are rated ,and keep getting title shots?

 

Well let me clear that up then. I always said from my personal view I thought Lewis should have fought those two clowns because of the different styles they offered, something different than Lewis had seen. I never accused him of "ducking" them, but I did accuse of him of being a hyprocrite, because he was so outspoken about fighters ducking him for paydays.
I dont think Lewis was scared of either, but I dont think he wanted to get down and dirty with Ruiz or possibly look foolish against the elusive Byrd. Both were on decent clips, Ruiz beat Rahman and Oquendo fairly easily after losing to Jones Jr.

 

Well regarded peers?
The
classic underacheiver. Mcline.

Byrd was 36 years old in their last fight, never had any power and his reflexes are gone.

Jefferson had lost 2 of of his last 3 fights when he fought Wlad,both by ko.
Barrat had an ancient Witherspoon on his cv and zilch else .
Mercer was 41 and six years after his last good performasnce ,a losing one .
Brock beat no one
Shufford decisioned Brewster ,who plods after you, looking to plant one big left hook on your chops ,and throws one punch at a time,if you can't outbox him ,you are in the wrong sport.
Shulz never beat anyone.
Peter was exposed as a clubbing brawler without stamina or balls.

Alphabet holders have zero credibity with me ,unless they are actually any good.
You make my case for me.