Is Vitali Klitschko an ATG?

Ok?

 

Kevin Johnson? The one who plays idle on ropes and throws back 2-3 punches? No. Johnson would have to show movement, but I think an old Foreman is in much better shape. Not to much an ancient Bruce Seldon shook him up. I think Foreman Ko's him. All those guys are more impressive to me than KJ. Tommy Morrison, is much better, who moved and boxed and actually turned his back from Foreman. KJ never has really fought like that.

No it's not, however, it may be hard to tell... you know and all with a guy literally turning around and running away. I'd fancy a HW doing that as a disgrace, and if he wasn't somewhat hurt than it's an absolute sham. Vitali said that he "Punched good." We all know Arreola is a combo puncher and not a huge power, even Arreola says this. He was a former LHW when he was actually not fat. I think I still have the fight so I might re-watch it to find out but I remember a moment Vitali look like he felt something. He didn't wobble and wasn't badly hurt, but again Arreola landed little significance. Honestly, think it was a jab that had him turn away and run for the hills.

I'll get back to you on the challenge, as I have things to do but also want to make sure I can find something that clearly shows a fighter taking a shot at least equally as well (In terms of the power of a shot).

That Sanders caught him on the jaw and then Vitali ran back as fast as he could, held on for dear life and got caught up again and flopped like a fish. Honestly, thought that was a legit knockdown. Don't know how anyone can say otherwise as he was clearly hurt, clearly holding, and getting punched at during the process of slamming to the canvas.

Sure. Rocky was an aggressive forward moving fighter. Any fighter that moves forward goes toward the power and moves into the fire. Vitali often doesn't let himself get hit with much and once he does he covers up and clinches. So no, he hasn't had a flash knockdown. Honestly, a flash knockdown isn't really much determination on a chin. Clottey for christ sakes got flash KD by Cotto it happens when you go to fight. Vitali by his own dominance and seriously lacking competetion doesn't face that fire often. He hasn't been thoroughly beaten up nor has he been in all out war except for the Lewis fight where he was badly hurten many times in that fight. In fact, for any clear objective viewer he was hurt more times in that fight than Lewis was. Everyone says Lewis has a glass chin, but Vitali was still up on the cards. The tide was turning, but both took shots and Lewis was winning a dog**** against a supposed "Granite chin fighter." Vitali also goes down if he doesn't hold on and drag Lewis to the other side of the ring.

In terms of chin there is two factors. Accumulation type punishment (Something Vitali hasn't proven too much) and taking one punch power. Vitali can take one punch power without going down but he has been badly hurt (Like the Lewis fight). Honestly, even though Marciano was downed I think Vitali was hurt more in the Lewis fight than Rocky ever was. Speculation, maybe the Moore fight would be a counter example but I'm it's close.

And how the hell do you say Marciano was in worse shape in round 11 than in the final round against Lewis (I presume that). Marciano was getting beaten up but he was moving forward and hanging in there trying to force the action. Any big artilerly and Vitali held for dear life. If getting knocked down is your only criteria for a great chin that's fine. Vitali has great survival skills but he has been hurt often, while only losing 7 rounds in his pro career. His defense is awful and great offensive fighter would to get him in a big fight would test his chin more. To me he gets a bit of the pass. Watching the last round against Lewis is hilarious seeing Vitali try to survive. And people persist he "Had Lewis"

Lewis hit harder than Moore and Walcott. Sanders probably had more power than both, but Walcott and Moore were definitely sharper and more pin-point punchers. P4P Marciano has a much superior chin. Going forward and with the style he does have and only being down for 5-6 seconds in his pro career is not shabby. Vitali has probably initiated more clinches in the Lewis fight than Marciano did in his career. That's some perspective.

By the way, though, I don't buy that Sanders had great power. It is very good power. And his straights get good hip leverage, but he doesn't use nearly enough of his lower body like he should.

I wonder why nobody thinks it is weird how Vitali has a granite chin but Wlad has a glass chin. The reality for me is both could be slight extremes. Wlad panics and has stamina troubles. Maybe his chin is indeed as bad as people suggest. Vitali has a good chin, don't get me wrong but I don't buy it's hype.

 

Vitali's last 7 opponents (of which he Ko'd 6 of them) have a combined record of 228 wins and 8 losses. I don't know if any of you have ever done any fighting, but this kind of accumulation of wins and losses does not happen from shitty opponents, especially not in the heavyweight ranks. You're absolute ****ing imbecilic morons if you think these statistics are some lucky accident.

 

F.F.Sakes....... We are now running in circles here....... I've already voted for V.K. in the "Yes" column and I'm sticking to it, as well....... Only a single handful of former champs dating back to 1887 could perhaps of kicked V.K.'s ass in a pro fight scheduled for 10, 12 or 15 rds....... V.K. is the very BEST giant sized heavyweight I have ever seen, aside from Lennox Lewis.......

In my book, giant sized heavies are dudes 6' 5" or more and easily 240 solid pounds of flesh and bones.......

George Foreman qualifies during his second career in the game..... He too was huge...

MR.BILL

 

That Morrison was a real cutie, a regular Jersey Joe. Only a fighter as slick as this could have went the distance with old man George.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sit01F0zPc0[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpdeONftgaA[/ame]


Who needs the head movement of a Kevin Johnson, who only made the normally accurate Vitali miss over 700 punches? Bah, so unproven.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZimro13AyM&feature=related[/ame]

 

Managed to clearly lose two fights in that very same amount of time. :scaredas::scaredas::scaredas:

 

I really dont think he should be considered an ATG. He hasnt fought enough high quality opposition.

 

no

 

Game ,Set ,and decidedly MATCH :good

 

Has your Brian been pained?:huh

 

no

 

You think VK could hang with Riddick Bowe? :-(

 

Out of curiosity for those who claim he is an all time great can you name 5 all time great heavyweights with worse resumes?

 

Dempsey, Jeffries, Liston, Patterson, Jeffries, Wills :smoke

 

Now we're talking in circles: Kevin Johnson's slickness is supposed to excuse his going the distance with Vitali. Why is he slick? Because he went the distance with Vitali.

The fact is that Johnson's best moment, by your admission, is going the distance with a 38 year old ABC champion. Aside from that, his biggest claim to fame is beating an old Bruce Seldon. That's at age 30. By contrast by 30 Morrison had went into early retirement with AIDS, having beating Razor Ruddock, Pinklon Thomas, George Foreman, Carl Williams and a host of familiar journeymen.

No-one said that Morrison had an iron chin. The point is that he hit harder than Johnson and that was why Foreman couldn't go all out against him. Can anyone dispute that? Put an old Foreman in with a no-hoper with a blown-up record and negligible power, and he'd take him out. That is the point and you clearly have no case against it.