Is Vitali Klitschko an ATG?

Actually you've made this challenge before, been called out on it and appealed to "I thinks" and "my opinions". We can all accept that, in your opinion, the above is the case. But that basically removes you from the objective argument here.

 

This thread is really going on a lot longer than it should be. I like Vitali Klitschko and applaud him for some of his better efforts, especially at his advanced age. But he simply is not an all time great and most likely never will be.

 

Slickness isnt defined by who you've fought, its defined by defensive ability, Johnson has an excellent defense and is a great shot slipper and parrying ability

Most consider Williams, Rudduck, Thomas shot when Morrison faced them and Foreman was old and slow. Foreman himself also lost to Schulz who was seriously sub-par, got schooled by Holyfield and was getting schooled by Moorer.

Foremans comeback record simply isn't impressive

 

So did Buster Mathis Jr, but that didnt make it worth a **** if you beat him. I would rather see a guy like Klitschko fight a guy like Morrison than a defensive guy who has no power and no offense, anyday.

 

Foreman simply couldnt catch up to Morrison who turned into a boxer mover for that fight. It had little to do with Morrisons power in the fight, but more to Morrison staying away from George. Foreman chose Morrison because he knew he could take his lefthook, and Morrison was supposed to stand in front of him with his weak chin so Foreman could hit him and knock him out. Who knew Morrison could box and move like that? Well he couldnt against anyone who moved slightly faster than a land tortoise.

 

By the time of the Foreman fight, Morrison's biggest wins was a blow out of a verywashed up Pinklon Thomas and a knockdown fest with a very washed up Carl Williams. The Mercer raping was the icing on the cake, he wasn't an unproven prospect against Foreman but a set up for him to look good against. Unforunately, he ran for his life against the statuesque Foreman and walked away the winner. See lefthook 31's post as he beat me to it.

And yes, Vitali's connection numbers were shockingly down against Johnson and its apparent to anyone his defense, speed, and spoiling tactics played a factor. Vitali isn't exactly inexperienced against his type either, easily dominating the more proven Gomez and Larry Donald previously. Like it or not, Johnson bucked a trend and made himself stand out even if it wasn't pretty for an offensive fight fan to look at. I admire great defense..see Moore in my avatar, and found Kevin Johnson's performance to be very interesting. Guy just couldn't find the time to get his own punches off, maybe he'll improve with that down the road, or maybe he's just a slightly more effective Larry Donald.

 

Vitali is certainly better off the back foot, anticipating his opponent's punches and busting them up with his jab and awkward high volume combinations. He can get the job done against spoilers but it really isn't very pretty too watch.

You know, I actually think Vitali would stand a very good chance against Bowe. He could do the things Golota did with much more consistentency and Bowe got really sloppy when he had to run his meal down. Vitali did fair better against their common opponents also, you can't stop Bowe, but I could see a decision win.

 

:good

 

What?!

Matt Skelton looked like Sugar Ray Robinson when he was fighting a hugely overweight and unmotivated Danny Williams. In fact, put me in with a midget and I can look pretty slick.

Again, let's stick to the point here: why should anyone thing that KEVIN JOHNSON could go the distance with (or even beat) an old George Foreman?

 

I think Foreman could have had a chance if he'd been able to just go all out and throw punches without any regard to blows coming back, but that would be suicide against Morrison. Meanwhile, as you say, Morrison could box and move pretty well against slow opponents (he did well against Ruddock as well, but that's because Ruddock never learnt how to hit a moving target).

 

No he couldn't. Look at Golota in his fights with Bowe. Everyone seems to think that any big opponent with a good punch and a jab could beat Bowe, just because Golota did so well, but there is MUCH more to it than that. Also, Bowe was clearly past his best at that point and was poorly trained for both fights.

 

1. If you think skeleton look like Sugar Ray your following the wrong sport/hobby
2. WTF has an old George ever done, **** ALL outside of a win over a china chin LHW
3. lets see what Johnson does with his career, this was his first big shot, maybe he'll get some quality wins in the future
4. Johnson is visually fast and visually very good defense, Skeleton wasnt, no one else has done as good a defense job on Vitali

 

Your hilarious. Your Skelton analogy actually describes your take on Morrison/Foreman beautifully.


Vitali is simply more capable than Old George Foreman. Vitali has stopped frustrating opponents like Donald(who Bowe couldn't land a clean glove on) and Gomez. Foreman couldn't catch Morrison and Axel. The Kevin Johnson that fought Vitali would be an absolutely horrible match up for George. Foreman might get a decision because of Johnson's poor punch output but he certainly isn't walking him down and stopping him unless he slips on a banana peel or something.

 

Vitali is more than a good punch and jab just as Golota was in spurts. Bowe was poorly trained for almost every fight after his big win over Holyfield, guy did not treat his body kindly, and always had an excuse.

 

Or maybe he didnt want it enough ?
I thought he was disgraceful in a challenge for the HEAVYWEIGHT TITLE .I WOULD HAVE FINED HIM FOR LACK OF EFFORT.