Is Ward now an All Time Great? (As in top 100 of all time)

Now ask yourself what they were doing at 32.

 

He beat Trinidad - H2H if there was a poll he'd be considered better than Kovalev - they're similar tier to me.
He had an even fight with slightly past prime Whitaker. They're legit. Win against Mosley 2 on steroids. He has one of the most stacked resumes and it absolutely trumps Ward's at the moment.
Oscar is Top 50.
Oscar gets a lot of criticism just because all of his losses, but they have significant back stories.

 

Oscar was in his 6th weight class, past prime and a part time boxer who had secured an astonishing legacy as a Top 50 ATG. Longevity is about ring age, not actual age. Otherwise Wilfried Benitez is not great and Bernard Hopkins is the greatest.

 

I don't think Mosley is better than Kovalev. Trinidad probably is though.

 

I'd say Wards best win is Kovalev II. Which is better than DLH's best win which is Trinidad.

Due to the combination of Kovalev being very good and he won emphatically.

DLH win over Trinidad wasn't a KO or even an official win.

 

Trinidad and Mosley were great fighters at the time Oscar fought them. It's hard to argue against that.

I wasn't impressed with his foray at MW given he didn't fight at the full 160 lbs. He lost to Sturm but was gifted the decision to ensure his mega fight with Hopkins would still be on later that year.

People forget he made Hopkins fight him at a catchweight of around 157 or 158, I forgot. I actually had him winning up to the point that Bernard caught him with that picture perfect liver shot.

Still, Oscar had some great wins at the lighter weights. I don't count his wins over an over the hill Chavez sr as being that great, but he did beat Pernell in a competitive fight (albeit a much older version of Pea who was riddled with drug problems at that point in his career.) He does have a lot of names on his resume, but there's a backstory to most of them outside of Tito and Mosley.

 

thing is its a bit early to assume ward doesnt have a lot of super"elite" wins, since the careersof his opposition are often not yet complete.

but i agree hes not an Oscar.

 

Oscar doesn't have a defining or signature moment of his career. Ward does, it was his KO of Kovalev.

That said Oscar's resume is deeper. Not that Ward's isn't deep too because of the Super 6. But Oscar fought everybody under the sun.

 

Oscar really only has 1 elite win himself which was the unofficial Trinidad win. And the fact that he didn't get the decision kind of ruins it a little bit.

I don't consider Mosley II an elite win since he was just blown up by Forrest and never really returned to tip top form after that.

Oscar lost clear to Mosley in the first fight.

 

Well the thing that Oscar is always going to be remembered for, and it's a bit sad to say really, is that he came up short in the biggest fights of his career.

Now most people thought he did enough to win the Tito fight, but the way he fought in those last 4-5 rounds is essentially a microcosm of the guy's career. Always coming up short on the biggest of stages.

 

Even his win against Quartey was close. Everytime Oscar stepped up to the fight the best he went life and death. He never bot blown out until he was old, but he always had to grit himself to pull out a victory.

 

Not a single athletic or fast fighter on that list. He's clearly been matched against euro level fighters (((white))) and it's obvious now why that's the case - Andre Ward doesnt possess speed. He was not visibly that much quicker than Sergey F'n Kovalev in the 1st or 2nd fight - he was getting caught repeatedly by a long right hand. That's inexcusable.

He doesnt have the physical tools to be ATG. Neither speed nor power. You could argue that neither speed nor power is necessary to be ATG, "skills" are all that is necessary, but you better have masterful skills. Masterfully skilled fighters don't lose a jabbing contest (and woefully so) with sergey Kovalev. Masterfully skilled fighters don't get caught repeatedly over two fights with long right hands from a fighter that can't at least threaten you with a left hook.

* Dawson was a solid enough win, but don't cite that as an example of a "quick, athletic" fighter. He was dead on his feet from the weight cut. Nothing about him was fast from rd 1 on.

 

Not doing top 100, but he has done enough to get in the hall of fame. But he has also tarnished himself with low blows to win the re-match, most felt he lost the first fight with Kovalev.

 

Oscar obviously made mistakes against Trinidad down the stretch. He deserved to win but he let the fight be close enough for the judges to take it. That was Oscar's best "win" and it's on a similar level as the Kovalev win. Moreover, Oscar left it to the judges without clearly winning on pretty much every occasion he really stepped up barring the times he got stopped.

Mosley really wasn't that good at 154. The cat was out of the bag on how to beat him already. Not a great win.

Ward performs at a higher level but Oscar's resume, as of now, is deeper. That much is clear cut.