Is Wlad the best all-time-heavyweight? NO OPINION, just PURE RECORD ANALYSIS

Proof?

And the best is? Proof?

OK, don't give me any proofs ... that peeing ****** has convinced me. Why do we need FACTUAL data, when we have monkeys. So nice to discuss stuff with the unbiased scientific community.

 

My calculations expose LaMar Clark as a winner against bums LIKE A CHARM. Just like they expose Sam Langford. You actually have supported my calculations by your example, so I don't understand why you rage against them.

Moreover can you tell me how Klitschko's record is "manipulated" to have a better record than Ali & co although "everybody knows he is crap"? I mean, I never claimed that Klitschko is the best and I said it many times that my stats are a simplified numbers game so far, BUT THEY POINT INTO THE RIGHT DIRECTION.

A lot of adjustments that have to made to make my calculations more representative will put Ali & co EVEN LOWER. Because for example so far I credit Ali with non-bum opponents which are actually bums, (because I didn't delete their below-200 fights from their record). So expect Ali & co to be even WORSE.

 

Thank you for contributing a good quote for my collection.

It must be a treasure for every thread-starter to have you in the thread.

 

The fight was below-200, otherwise Ali would look even worse. This is an example like I meant it in the previous post. To expose Clark for ALI's record I would have to analyze Ali's opponents' opponents (= Clark's opponents). That's 2 level deep thus it hasn't been done (yet).

 

1) All-time greats by whose OPINION? Read my prior post: Practically all of the oh-so-great opponents of Ali crumble under scrutiny. See my post in response to psychopath: http://www.eastsideboxing.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1979579&postcount=174
2) It's too early to tell yet, because his opponents are still fighting.
3) It's too early to tell yet, because my calculations are not finished so I cannot tell you even how many Muhammad Ali has beaten.

I just re-checked Foreman's record. You know he was credited 37-0 when he faced Joe Frazier, but when you exclude all the bums then he faced only 3 non-bum opponents until then. Thank you for pointing out that you don't like bum-beaters because it's bloating up the records.

 

Yes, they would get credited for a non-bum win. This is the flaw I mentioned already several times, that a win over Butterbean is the same like a win over Lennox Lewis, see my prior posts. I mentioned this over and over.

But I mentioned also, that we are already comparing high class boxers (Ali, Holyfield, Lennox etc) WHO USUALLY DO NOT FIGHT BUTTERBEANS or similar bum-beaters.

At this point it's hard to say whose record would be upvalued by beating bum-beaters, but by my estimation it will hurt Foreman, Ali & co because there were a lot of more bums in the previous times (remember "bum of the month club"?) than now.

Correct, but what do you mean by "Just as I thought"? I pointed out this flaw very often. My calculations are a first glance into the right direction, not the final calculations.

What I don't like most about them is that they ignore the cruiser record. I mean everyone knows that having a 2-0 heavyweight record (because one started 1 month ago) is not the same as having a 2-0 record (because one switched from a cruiserweight career 30-0 to heavyweight 1 month ago). So maybe I add a gliding scale that puts 200+ at 100% value and, say, 175 at 0% (= fights are discarded for the record) and 187.5 at 50%. So far everything below-200 is counted as 0%. So fights of cruiser Marciano and others wouldn't get lost completely. Moreover maybe I can skip the rule that we discard bums, and instead (since we calculate the Quality of an opponent) credit the winner LESS (instead of nothing, like now).

So this way, more people will agree and I think this will represent the achievements of boxers better.

 

Who is now insulting fighters?

Spin what? That Wlad has lost? How did I spin that? When?

And why do you think I support Wlad? IT'S YOU WHO BRING UP Klitschko all of the time, so I need to defend my calculations. Who even says I like Wlad? But if you state that Ali has fought UNBELIEVABLY GOOD OPPOSITION while Wlad has fought only nobodies... then it's simply WRONG. Or rather OPINION-BASED and not RECORD-based.

I don't want to take away anybody's right to believe that Ali REALLY KOed Superman
http://images.google.com/images?num=100&hl=en&safe=off&q=Superman%20vs.%20Muhammad%20Ali%20&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi

(was a really good comic by Neal Adams (yes, the expanding earth guy))

but when it comes to comparison that facts like KO-ratio, win-loss-ratio etc count.