Is Wlad the best all-time-heavyweight? NO OPINION, just PURE RECORD ANALYSIS

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by knn, Jun 21, 2008.


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  1. knn

    knn amanda Full Member

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    Ali's 20th fight. Not what I define as early days.
     
    knn, Jun 30, 2008
    knn, Jun 30, 2008
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  2. dits

    dits Active Member Full Member

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    I'm sorry if someone mentioned this before but the non-bum definition is just flawed. How do you classify a non-bum who's basically a cherry picker from an honest to goodness fighter who faced great opposition or when a boxer fought a prime opponent to someone who's shot?

    And is this "statistical method" any more subjective than with using a method involving an evaluation of a boxer's talent & style, quality of opposition and number of belts won?
     
    dits, Jun 30, 2008
    dits, Jun 30, 2008
    #302
  3. Antsu

    Antsu Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    1) No you didn’t. You are just unbiased record analyzer. :D

    2) I didn’t say I want him to proof how weak Klitchko is. Wlad is one of the best in division.

    Haye has already unified cruiser division him winning heavyweight title would be great accomplishment.

    And it would just be funny to see cruiserweight ending Wlads reign after all these years Wlad fans saying how superheavys could crush every fighter in past.

    If Haye would lose it would be impressive victory for Klitchko, but it wouldn’t make cruiserweight division weak in anyway.
    And after Toney he is my favorite active fighter so I naturally would want him to win.

    3) What I have hear David already annihilated Klitchko four times behind close doors in 10-rounders. Everyone of them ended inside two rounds.
    But that just what I have heard.:yep
     
    Antsu, Jun 30, 2008
    Antsu, Jun 30, 2008
    #303
  4. knn

    knn amanda Full Member

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    Jun 21, 2008
    I answered this already several times.

    You mean like Ali beating a 45 year old Archie Moore? Or like Foreman facing only 7 non-bums in the 70ies (including half-blind Joe Frazier)? See my posts above where I pick apart the "stellar high opposition" of Ali.

    Talent and style MANIFEST THEMSELVES as wins and KO-wins. So no need to refer to subjective evaluations.

    Quality of opposition... was a topic of many of my posts in this thread. Please see above.

    "Number of belts won" (and "Number of belt defenses") IS BY ITSELF a very alluring statistic, BUT:
    • Is a world title of the 70ies less valuable than the world title of 2000ies? (Since the world is approx. twice as big now)
    • Is a world title of the 70ies less valuable than the world title of 2000ies? (Since it didn't include eastern-european boxers)
    • Is a world title of the 70ies as valuable as EBU 2000?
    • Is WBA as much worth as WBC?
    • Is WBA as much worth as "World title without the Alphabets"?
    • Is a world title with a 40-0 opponent (Ali vs Foreman) more worth than 58-40 (Louis vs Roper)?
    Because of these problems I decided that a world title is just a NAME for a bout. Thus it's counted like any other bout.
     
    knn, Jun 30, 2008
    knn, Jun 30, 2008
    #304
  5. knn

    knn amanda Full Member

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    Since I support the garbage by stats I prefer the term "fragrant garbage"
     
    knn, Jun 30, 2008
    knn, Jun 30, 2008
    #305
  6. Rumsfeld

    Rumsfeld Moderator Staff Member

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    Anyone who ranks Wlad any HIGHER than 15-20 on an all-time list (and even that is being generous) should kindly share the drugs.

    :smoke
     
    Rumsfeld, Jun 30, 2008
    Rumsfeld, Jun 30, 2008
    #306
  7. knn

    knn amanda Full Member

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    1. The drugs are called REALITY ADJUSTMENTs.
    2. On my all-time list ONLY achievements in the ring (= end scores) count. If you add non-measurable attributes like "presence" or "ringmanship" then you might even get a list where Rumsfeld is #1 and Bush is #2.
    3. Since you disagree with my record analysis, could you tell why you put whom on YOUR top10?
     
    knn, Jun 30, 2008
    knn, Jun 30, 2008
    #307
  8. curmudgeon

    curmudgeon Active Member Full Member

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    Wlad beat Ibragimov who beat Briggs who beat Foreman who beat Frazier who Beat Ali.

    So Wlad beats Ali.

    As good reasoning as any.
     
    curmudgeon, Jun 30, 2008
    curmudgeon, Jun 30, 2008
    #308
  9. curmudgeon

    curmudgeon Active Member Full Member

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    Most of the sacred american ATGs are hype jobs of the american promoters.

    They do not hold a candle to modern athletes.
     
    curmudgeon, Jun 30, 2008
    curmudgeon, Jun 30, 2008
    #309
  10. curmudgeon

    curmudgeon Active Member Full Member

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    :deal

    American boxing in the 70s is a hype machine.
     
    curmudgeon, Jun 30, 2008
    curmudgeon, Jun 30, 2008
    #310
  11. knn

    knn amanda Full Member

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    Jun 21, 2008
    Rather the other way around: "heavily tainted by subjective data".

    Cool random word generator you have there. I hope your ATG is not THAT random.
     
    knn, Jul 1, 2008
    knn, Jul 1, 2008
    #311
  12. knn

    knn amanda Full Member

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    Such logic actually works mostly within fans of good-old-times:
    "Wow! Ali beat Foreman!"
    "So? Does it mean anything?"
    "Yes, because Foreman was the guy who beat Frazier!"
    "So? Is Frazier any good?"
    "Yes, he is the one who beat Ali."
     
    knn, Jul 1, 2008
    knn, Jul 1, 2008
    #312
  13. PH|LLA

    PH|LLA VIP Member Full Member

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    delete.
     
    PH|LLA, Jul 1, 2008
    PH|LLA, Jul 1, 2008
    #313
  14. ron u.k.

    ron u.k. Boxing Addict banned

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    what an absolute and utter bag of shite.:patsch
     
    ron u.k., Jul 1, 2008
    ron u.k., Jul 1, 2008
    #314
  15. liljp361

    liljp361 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    How dare you compare Wlad to Ali....
     
    liljp361, Jul 1, 2008
    liljp361, Jul 1, 2008
    #315
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