Is Wladimir Klitschko a top 10 HW of all time? - Please remember to vote

I'm happy to call any active fighter for what they are. If I think they're great, I'll say that they are. I consider Pacquiao to be in the top 30 of all-time, so it's not like I'm on some old-timers crusade and dislike any fighter who has fought since the 50s. However, I just don't see any basis to rate Wlad close to the top 10.

Has he been dominant? Yes, he has. Is that the criteria for greatness? No, it's not.

A fighter needs to do more than just to be dominant. The quality that Wlad has faced is incredibly poor, including his 'best' win which is over Chris Byrd, a guy who was outboxed by Fres Oquendo during his prime. I don't even think Byrd beat an old Golota again, during his prime. You look at Ibragimov, who was once a top quality boxer, but when Wlad beat him, he had been ruined by Jeff Mayweather and a fight or so previous had won a close decision over Ray Austin. When Wlad fought Ruslan Chagaev he became the true heavyweight champion but Chagaev is a guy who had Hepatitis and for that reason, he wasn't fit enough to get a licence in Finland. Who else is there? Haye? Brock? Thompson? Come on.

Wlad has been dominant but against a terrible calibre of opposition. That is not the criteria for greatness.

If Wlad had beaten a good depth of opposition, I'd be happy to view him as one fo the top 15 of all time. However, he simply hasn't done that. Unlike most people, I'm not desperate to call Wlad, or any other fighter, something that they aren't. There is no way anyone can rank Klitschko in the top 15 unless they are desperately seeking it. His resume isn't good enough and he has losses to weak opposition.

I rank Wlad where he deserves to be ranked. I'm not going to give him an unfairly high ranking because I'm desperate to be around in the 'Wlad Era'. He is what he is. A good fighter, that's it.

 

I agree Wlad has an extensive number of wins over B-level heavies like Byrd, Iggy, Chagaev and Haye but he hasn't beaten anyone of true quality which hurts him a lot.

On the other hand, dominance or rather longevity DOES factor in when ranking boxers in spite of a poor era.

 

You seem to be leaving wins against top Undefeated Challengers and Champions such as Chagaev, Ibragimov, and Brock. Let alone very solid wins against guys like McCline, Thompson, Chambers, Barrett, Rahman, Brewster, Jefferson, Shufford, and Jefferson. All of which were much more impressive wins than Mercer.

 

Something else to consider with Wlad is that with his style & attributes he has struggled with aggressive pressure. The majority of his signature wins have come against defensive counter-punchers like Byrd, Ibragimov, Chambers & Haye.

Manny Steward did not want Wlad to fight Chisora & was glad the fight never happened.

 

How on earth can you call guys like Byrd, Iggy, Chagaev, and Haye "B Level"? You do realize that those guys were all champions, right? Do you have any idea how damn amazing you have to be at boxing in order to win a World title? To be one of the best in the ENTIRE WORLD? Boxing fans are absolutely out of touch with reality.

 

I'm not sure I'd even call them B-level. If they were, you could make an argument for Wlad which is similar to the argument for Holmes. The big difference to me though, is that the likes of Witherspoon, Shavers and Norton really were B-class fighters, and that Byrd, Ibragimov, Chagaev, Haye etc., are a level below them.

If Wlad was unbeaten, you would have to give him credit but there's also the fact that Wlad has lost in his prime against Brewster and Sanders. Those losses are very significant and shouldn't be dismissed.

 

So Artur Grigorian is A level to you? After all, he was a world champion. Do you think he deserves to be ranked alongside Duran because he was a world champion for a long time?

 

If these guys are A-level - what level are the Klits then? There's clearly a gap between the Klitschkos and their opponents hence Haye and so forth are B-level at best. H2H Haye is probably the most dangerous and best opponent Wlad beat with Byrd a close second. I consider Iggy and Chagaev borderline B-level.

And why are you so upset that some random dudes on the internet don't ride your hero's dick? Why do you even give a ****?

 

Something i don't understand about klit lickers is why they get so offended when you say he's outside the top 15.

Being one of the top 20 all time heavyweights is a hell of a compliment!! I'm sure wlad himself is more than happy with that legacy.

Its disrespectful to the other ATGs when these wlad fans get soo pissy as if he has a God given tight to be a top 5.

 

Well, there's Klitschko fans (Robney for example) who are supporters of their boxer like any other group of fans supports their boxer and there's klittards who are more often than not

1. racist
2. uneducated
3. extremely attached to their favourite boxers (which incidentally happen to be all ethnically white)
4. boxing noobs who began watching boxing in the early '00s
5. unfamiliar with trash talk and very sensitive about it
6. too dumb to comprehend that insulting their heroes doesn't mean the insults are directed towards them klittards personally.

 

I completely agree with your reasoning...any hard hitting hw would destroy him inside if his clinch is gone.

It's the word excessive though isn't it, it's a vague number of infractions and the boxing world in general seems to be ok with what he does (despite thinking him very boring) which is why I hesitate to call it full on rule breaking.

 

Exactly. It isn't a criticism to be outside of the top 20. The heavyweight division has just had a long and rich history. If people were saying he's not in the top 30, that'd be excessive but outside the top 20 is a compliment considering his losses and poor quality of opposition.

 

There is a big difference between an A-level fighter and an ATG.

I'm upset? I didn't realize. I thought I was also simply voicing my opinion on a boxing forum during some free time on a Sunday.

Wladimir Klitschko is an ATG. Just because he is head and shoulders better than the rest doesn't mean they are all subpar fighters. If Wlad and Vitali didn't exist... everyone would think that the Heavyweight division was stacked with top level fighters with the belt changing hands often do to the high number of great challengers. You have allowed your views to become distorted simply because Wladimir Klitschko is such a rare talent, that he makes his opponents look lost and hopeless.

 

Resume takes into account losses also. And I believe those names you quoted were fought in the ww division (i'm on my phone so I don't have my notes on williams handy).

Technically flawless is hard to determine on the quality of film, but even when not handcuffed he could be beaten.

Noone who is average could dominate for a decade, absolutely not. Great is an ambiguous term but i'd label any such fighter as great, in a heartbeat.

 

Name me one other ATG who didn't beat a single great fighter and lost to weak opposition during his prime.