Ismael Laguna vs Floyd @ 135

Well hes beat 1 of them and for the record Floyd was past his prime too, 4weights above his prime weight and giving up 15lbs in weight, but oh yea that doesnt count becase DLH was 3years older was it?

And the 154lb version of Ricky Hatton beat Quartey, would have ko'd Tito if he didnt foul and had a tough fight with DLH

I'm not sure any of those 3 are P4P much better than Corrales/Castillo. All fighters have different attributes/strengths and Floyd's fought allot of styles

 

I'm still reeling from PowerPuncher saying DLH rates higher P4P than Carlos Ortiz?!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?

 

I thought Tszyu caught him clean and flush plenty of times. I think you're overreacting to Hatton's performances against Tackie and Phillips. They certainly did not have him in Collazo/Lazcano type of trouble. In my mind he has lost some punch resistance definitely. But like on pretty much everything, we'll have to agree to disagree.

 

ANother thing is when Tyszu did land he didnt get full extension and was going backwards because HAtton was bulling forward.

After he beat TYszu Hatton always had the attitude when you heard him interviewed 'if Tyszu can't ko me, Mayweather cant, a smaller man like Pacquaio cant', he believed his own hype a bit too much. Infamously he said 'I f'cking hope he (Mayweather) hits harder than that (when we fight)'

 

Yeah, but PowerPuncher, you rank DLH higher than Ortiz in an ATG sense?????

 

That doesn't count becuase DLH was above his prime weights himself AND past his prime.

What 154 pound version of Hatton are you talking about? Quartey would demolish Hatton, even if Quartey was a natural 140 pounder. Tito would have literally done a Pac on him, ok may 3 or 4 rounds and let's say Tito hits the canvas too.

Quartey, DLH and Tito at 147 would have been HELL for Floyd. If you deny that, then this discussion is over.

 

Tszyu was doing a lot of punching off the back foot, can't deny that, but he also launched some right hands with full extension and Hatton took them. It surprised me, i didn't think Hatton could withstand them but he did.

 

I think they are hard to compare, but I'll try:

DLH - Chavez*2 (dominant win), Whitaker (disputed win), Quartey (disputed win), Tito (disputed loss), Vargas (dominant win), G Hernandez (dominant), Leija (dominant), Gonzalez (dominant win), Camacho, Sturm (disputed win), Mosley (2losses, 1 disputed), FMJ/Hopkins (clear losses imo)

Ortiz - Laguana (2-1, all close), Loche (draw), Buchanon (past prime loss), Loi (lsot 1-2 all close, but the 2 he lost were in Italy, which could be dodgy), Elorde, Joe Brown (past prime), Ramos

Title Fights

DLH - 28 (including WBO over 6divisions)
Ortiz - 18 (fighting the best from 4 divisions)

SO DLH imo has a better opposition, better wins, over more divisions and has more title fights against more title holders (past/present/future), then again he was the golden boy who had everything in his favour.

 

You know full well I'm referring to Vargas as the 154lb Hatton, and the 154lb Hatton beat Quartey, came close to beating Tito and fought a good fight with DLH

DLH often weighed in on fight night in 160s at 147 on fight night, so 154 was a good weight for him, not as good as 147 but he is a hell of lot more suited to the weight than Floyd who weighed 148 on fight night in his lone 154lb fight

I don't see why Floyd wouldn't do to Tito what he did to Corrales, its a similar stylistic situation. Quartey simply isnt outboxing FMJ, not going to happen and his pace isnt fearsome. DLH would have been the hardest fight, no doubt

 

I did think Tyszu was going to take Hatton out pre-fight

 

Ortiz was also a far more effective fighter, and H2H would be a nightmare for De La Hoya. Super tough, adaptable, he lacks a bit of speed compared to LW Oscar, but Ortiz would outhink and/or outfight De La Hoya.

You make a decent enough summary of both fighters opponents; however, Ortiz fought better opponents.

You include Ortiz's past prime loss to Buchanan but not the utter decimation De La Hoya suffered at the hands of Pac???

Also, Ortiz often beat fighters in their hometowns, whereas, as you said yourself PowerPuncher, Oscar usually had everything his own way. And as so popular the fans were more often than not favouring him anyway.

Battling Torres was an undefeated fighter on Ortiz's resume. I've seen little of Torres but this was clearly a good win at the time as Torres was 31-0. Victories like this must surely add to Ortiz's resume. Was also the only man to stop Bizarro, who had 15 with Elorde (admittedly at super-feather)

 

Vargas is absolutely nothing like Hatton except of his weight ballooning between fights, I have no idea what kind of analogy you're trying to make here :nono

 

Head 2 head Ortiz is undoubtably better schooled, but in turn Oscar is faster, more of a force of nature type of fighter with his fast combinations, and he was so dominant in his wins from 135-140 against good titlists, although 147 was his prime. Plus head to head Oscar has ridicolous size advantages due to his weight draining, he was so big at all the weights he fought at until he got to 154. Both hard very nice footwork. Hard to call any match up between them especially given they peaked at different weights

I'd still take Oscar's resume all things considered, the names are that good, even if they do flatter him in a way. Oscar is a pretty hard guy to rate though. Which is his best weight (prob 147 but he prob had more advantages at 135-140)?, Did he really always come off second best in his biggest fights?? What about his 6division champ status (2 WBO), does it mean allot, or little?

PS I forgot Oscars loss to Pacquaio even though I did enjoy it, not a big Oscar fan

 

Fair enough, but Ortiz was massive at 135lbs himself.

 

To say nothing of the fact that Ike was past his prime when he faced Vargas, who imo was just a flat out more talented and better fighter than Hatton.