Isn't it a bit naive to expect past era fighters to be competitive against modern fighters...?

roughdiamond · Sep 21, 2019

MyHairlineIsGone said: ↑

Do you remember last year when that fighter fought with his hands down by his side and kept fainting? You don't? Well neither do I but hey guys who fought back in the 1920's or before could still be compete now. You know why they could ? Because guys on boxing forums like this say they could. Do you remember when last year they was that guy who was 5'9-5'10 and weighed 170-180 pound became heavyweight champion? Well neither do I. But who cares 5'10 170 to 180 pound guys like Gene Tunney and Rocky Marciano could still beat modern sized and modern skilled heavyweights. You know why they could? Of course you do, because guys on forums like this say they could.

Boxing has not evolved in the last 100 years. Boxing weight classes mean nothing. A 5'5 120 pound guy could beat a 6'3 to 6'5 220 to 250 pound heavyweight like George Foreman, Lennox Lewis, Riddick Bowe or Wladimir Klitschko because only skill matters. But it only matters when it comes to certain fighters. It I said Pernell Whitaker could beat Rocky Marciano these people will say no Marciano is much bigger. Then these same people will say Rocky Marciano could beat George Foreman.
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Banned again...

KeedCubano · Sep 21, 2019

roughdiamond said: ↑

Got a response yet, since you made such a fuss?
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C'mon rough you ethered him. He can't respond.

roughdiamond · Sep 21, 2019

KeedCubano said: ↑

C'mon rough you ethered him. He can't respond.
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I'm still waiting for @Brixton Bomber to respond. I think he was trolling me, pulling my chain you know.

roughdiamond · Sep 24, 2019

roughdiamond said: ↑

Edit: please read all.

Says the guy making snide comments about the 1940's for some reason (wrong era by the way). Got a response to how 3 round amateur bouts with headgear would be different? Of course there's a lot less chance of being stopped in those circumstances. Do you think Duran would be KOd ever there?

So Duran can hurt opponents like Sugar Ray Leonard, Stop Buchanan, beat Ernesto Marcel, KO DeJesus twice etc. Why don't you think Duran could KO him? All men had attributes like Loma (For example, Marcel's movement, Buchanan's brain, Leonard's speed), and were more durable too. Duran dealt with them all at 135 to 147. All were elite.
Even opponents such as Leonico Ortiz shows Duran's adaptions to Southpaws. Of course, Loma is a higher class than him, but how would Loma deal with the tactics such as Duran's shifting, multi faceted jab, inside fighting and physical presence? Because Loma doesn't have any physical advantages, and I just can't see him overcoming Duran, through pure skill alone.
Duran even beat opponents who used excessive movement (Bizzaro etc.). Basically pure runners are who Duran had trouble with at 135. Would Loma box like this? He's never shown anything like it before. He mostly wants to engage and moves offensively with his feet, and volume punches on the front foot rather than counter on the backfoot.

I also noted Loma seems to mark up and be backed up by body-shots much more regularly at 135 (such as in the Campell bout), due to his naturally smaller frame and stature. This would certainly come into play. Do you not think Duran would exploit this? How would Loma defend this? Tell me.

Duran definitely has the technical skills and IQ on par or exceeding Loma (Ray Arcel, ATG trainer, even stated similar himself), and they directly contrast Loma's own style, such as his short, blended inside offense and clinch skills hindering his angled resets. He's one of the best on the inside ever, an area where Loma doesn't exceed in and is troubled. Bigger, stronger and very skilled boxers like Sugar Ray Leonard couldn't keep him away from inside fighting. How would Lomachenko do it?

It wouldn't happen offensively, and Loma doesn't box defensively through his feet or style overall. Would he somehow change for one bout?

As I said, Loma doesn't like to inside fight and roughhouse, and prefers to work volume. He turns the angle to reset to center ring. Brilliant, sure. But how will he adapt to when Duran counters, inside fights and even roughhouses him. How would Loma adapt? Duran is 100x Salido in skill and pressure, and bigger. How would he do it? What do you think?

I'm not even sure what your full point is. And I don't know why your taking my statements like a personal attack on Lomas skill and greatness. I'm a big fan of the guy, been watching him since 2014. I've watched most of the amateur stuff too. Please don't disengage, I actually want to know how you think Loma would do it. I even apologise for being rash if it helps. This is a genuinely honest post. Don't be all bluster.

I also do think Loma has genuinely ATG skills, and could hang with and beat ATGs. Just not styles like Duran or Armstrong.
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I would still like a response @Brixton Bomber.

HOUDINI · Sep 24, 2019

Such nonsense.

WEIGHT CLASSES do matter. In lower weight classes 5-10 pounds can produce huge advantages.

What you are unable to grasp is as the weight level increases, weight differences mean much less. This is why you have all through boxing history much lighter fighters absolutely destroying huge hwts. The weight difference matters much less.

As for fighters with low guard great defensive boxing does not require covering up mid ring. The greats from the past would look at this as a complete waste of energy and unnecessary. Proper stance, footwork, the very basics of boxing skill..slipping, blocking, feinting, countering are what is required. Unfortunately today at least with the hwts this has in large part been replaced with a WWE mentality. Get big, get strong (all via ROIDS) and fight the 40 top ten contenders and the multiple champions. How cares about boxing skill? All watered down very low skilled fighters. Uninteresting except for the uninteresting.

Reinhardt · Oct 18, 2020

Brixton Bomber said: ↑

1) Loma is the most skilled fighter to grace that division.
2) If Garcia is getting stopped, neither is Loma.

Stop being one of those revisionists that is too bitter to give a modern legend his props.

Sour grapes, man. Sour grapes.
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Boy this post hasn't aged well has it? the most skilled fighter in lightweight history couldn't pull the trigger on a punch for the first 6 rounds because he was what? ,,,,,,,scared of Lopez power? Thank the creator he never tangled with ,,the Los Manos de Piedra, at 135.

Entaowed · Oct 18, 2020

roughdiamond said: ↑

Banned again...
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This guy has some decent points, but like many he sacrifices credibility when he assigns outrageous claims to classicists such as tiny guys could beat the biggest regardless of any weight classes.

Also he is reckless-assuming not consciously dishonest-in describing the prime weights of fighters.
Tunney was in the 190's as a HW vs. Dempsey, not 170's-180's, & as Marciano said himself on video his prime weight was 187/188.
And that was boiled down from his natural non-overweight size of 203 lbs.

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Isn't it a bit naive to expect past era fighters to be competitive against modern fighters...?

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Isn't it a bit naive to expect past era fighters to be competitive against modern fighters...?

roughdiamond Ridin' the rails... Full Member

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