It was a good Joshua performance; not a good boxing performance.

choklab · Dec 8, 2019

Komaster said: ↑

Let's come back from space for a second. Anthony Joshua just out boxed (but by no means put on a clinic) against a tiny, plodding Ruiz whom he'd already seen for half a fight beforehand; so let's throw out any claims of him being the paragon of real-time adjustment. And juxtaposing the two performances - it's not hard to see why the praise is overly profuse. But let's be real. It was a 101 game plan that; if it didn't result in a win, would only have to garner (and rightly so) immense criticism. He jabbed and moved. That is all. Against a 6'1 boxer. As stated before; he'd seen for half a fight already. With a mega million-dollar machine backing him all the way.

But boxing purists would have to not be satiated. Where were the combinations? Did Ruiz's head snap back from a lovely right hand set up by a feign to the body. Or was there a sweet left hook setup by a feign with the straight right. There was literally a count-on-one-hand amount of anything resembling skill; in fact I'd expect more respectable post-basic-fundamental stuff from Hughie Fury if he were to fight Ruiz. For me this changes nothing, and I still consider this an average-at-best performance from a boxing perspective. It was in fact simply a very tentative performance by a very limited, physically gifted individual who fought with such trepidation in the ring not in fear of being knocked out; but one in fear of not being able to win. Winning meant jab and move. Joshua was fearful of not being able to do that. Add to that, he was still being hit to the body numerous times and had moments when his ungainly in-the-pocket baby-giraffe-routine explicitly shone through. Ruiz was simply too unorganised to capitalise; although he did have some success. Joshua poked his tongue out a few times to confirm this.

A good boxing performance would entail dismantling the tiny Ruiz and showcasing something more than the paltry amount he displayed. A snapping combination here and there would raise the mark to slightly about a C-. And paltry is in fact generous. Joshua seemed completely inept in landing a telling shot against an opponent that wasn't hurt, cowering or staggered - through the use of real-time psychology, fakes, mind games (and other words in boxing parlance that means they are above sh*t.) I just feel the boxing I.Q in this individual was so severely lacking in any way shape or form and I simply don't feel in any way impressed with this performance.

Joshua did not dare to be great; he simply wanted revenge in front of his ingratiated oil magnates (Let's not forget the delightful shrilling of the Saudi crowd every time Joshua landed anything more than a glancing blow which probably influenced even the most hardened claimers of being ''objectively minded''. He wanted to prove he could beat a guy, (which he did but not by much) with a run-of-the-mill jab and minimal bouts of appendage ungainliness. Which he failed in the latter on numerous occasions. Let's not mention the few times he held on to Ruiz, only to complain about punching whilst holding (which isn't punching on the break, although some were borderline).

I'd give this performance an A- for Joshua and a C - if an A was for a perfect boxer's performance by a 6"6 athlete with literally everything at his dispense leading up to the fight.

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Great post

Komaster · Dec 8, 2019

Jacko said: ↑

Good Post, but, isn't that how most people have seen it, judging from the majority of posts on here? OK, there have been the few 'He put on a clincic' posts. But, most just saw it like you did; he made the necessary adjustments and did what he had to do, albeit, in a simplistic, workmanlike, less than exciting way.

Still, nice post, Komaster.
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Thanks for the feedback. Yeah the post was specifically addressing and those clinic claims, which I guess is fewer than first thought.

choklab · Dec 8, 2019

It was no showcase. But he got the titles back..by showing he could do that many rounds on the outside without anxiety draining him as it usually does before his power saves the day. To be honest I expected him to fight like that then get drained from being uncomfortable for so long because AJ always looks like he can’t fight on the outside. He still can’t. But he is at least comfortable now. Ruiz was thinking the same thing. But he ran out of time waiting for it to happen. So yeah, he surprised me. But not in a good way.

Komaster · Dec 8, 2019

Tramell said: ↑

I wonder how many who agree with this stated Fury put on a clinic against Wilder...by landing about 15 more shots. Did he dare to be great. Just an analogy to see if we all use the same vetting process for all fighters, or do we raise the bar for one and lower it for others.

4 the record...I am just using a standard vetting proces, not disagreeing rather testing myself...if I use this statement and agre.,...does that mean I should have said the same of Winky Wright vs Tito Trinidad? Dig this!
Trinidad landed about 58 of 557 10% connect rate---well I ask myself what caused that? According to CompuBox statistics. Wright connected on 185 jabs. That is my best example of how to win with Jab & move. No combinations, no bricks or haymakers, meaning I would say AJ did to Ruiz what Winky did to Tito..won by sticking and moving. Against a no one, that isnt too good, but when U beat a top contender that way IMO...that's a special feat.

Good question. Not sure how many HW champs in the past 10-20 years can be attributed with wins based on combination punching. It is a lost art for sure.

Curious as to some examples of HW's who you felt gave a good performance.

I agree. The issue for me is that we are in a era of mediocrity. When I see Fury, Wilder, AJ landing no more than a 100 shots in 12 rounds, they seem to have no clue -previous HW's who stepped up and fought bigger guys didn't give a damn. Tyson, Tua, Ibeabuchi, Mercer, Bowe, Holyfield-these guys threw combos or punches in bunches...none club fighter style...those guys are my example of daring to be great. Making an opening when there isn't one. AJ was calculating. It paid off!

Sounds generous. BTW Good post !
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Yeah he successfully won by jabbing and moving, although it wasn't impressively executed IMO. Like those stats you posted; I doubt whether Joshua actually landed really good jabs in great numbers. There were rounds where you could count on one hand the jabs landed by Joshua to a few of Ruiz's straight rights to the body. Those rounds were probably closer but Joshua nicked them. In fact I think a lot of rounds were nicked by Joshua and hardly dominant IMO.

Jacko · Dec 8, 2019

Komaster said: ↑

Yeah he successfully won by jabbing and moving, although it wasn't impressively executed IMO. Like those stats you posted; I doubt whether Joshua actually landed really good jabs in great numbers. There were rounds where you could count on one hand the jabs landed by Joshua to a few of Ruiz's straight rights to the body. Those rounds were probably closer but Joshua nicked them. In fact I think a lot of rounds were nicked by Joshua and hardly dominant IMO.
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I think there were three, maybe four rounds were I struggled who to give it to. I went with AJ because Ruiz done next to nothing and AJ may have landed one semi decent shot more than Ruiz.

I was half tempted to score them 10/10 rounds, but you can't have 3 or 4 10/10 rounds in a fight. It's ludicrous.

reckless · Dec 8, 2019

DanielDimov said: ↑

What size dude, he lost so much weight. He was almost weighting the same as Usyk
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He's still a good 20lbs heavier than Usyk.

sniffmybadger · Dec 8, 2019

It was a cautious and sensible performance. If he lost again his career would be completely undone, so he did the smart thing and boxed a displined long range fight and that's it. He could have stood there and traded for our entertainment and let Ruiz into the fight, or he could neutralize the only threat that Ruiz possessed and make sure of the win.

DanielDimov · Dec 8, 2019

reckless said: ↑

He's still a good 20lbs heavier than Usyk.
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Usyk posted a photo on social media weighing 230 lbs

Potato80 · Dec 8, 2019

Really good post. He's obviously starting to be targeted for his weaknesses (doesn't like fast hands up close), and it's making him into a somewhat safe one-dimensional fighter.

We saw the same thing happen with WK: he became too safe to protect his vulnerabilities. Then someone younger and hungrier and more talented appeared and dethroned him.

The difference is - unlike WK's era - there are already younger and hungrier and more talented boxers ready to fight AJ: Fury, Wilder, and Usyk all knock AJ into a cocked hat imo.

He simply doesn't have the time to capitalise with this safety first style, cos - unlike the 2000's - there's already guys out there more talented and hungrier.

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It was a good Joshua performance; not a good boxing performance.

choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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It was a good Joshua performance; not a good boxing performance.

choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

Komaster Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

Komaster Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

Jacko Boxing Junkie Full Member

reckless Active Member Full Member

sniffmybadger Relationships are not my forte Full Member

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