Its not always who you beat but when you beat them...for ATG RATINGS

This has been going on long before Manny Pacquiao came along, but he is the current leader of this trend. Joe Louis is famous for having 25 defenses of the heavyweight title, but in all honesty who did he beat???? coming up he feasted on past prime title holders and was upset by Schmeling and remained " well managed" until his championship years which wasnt a murderers row of opponents. He never beat an all-time great or even near great in their prime outside a much smaller Billy Conn but he is still most peoples #1 or #2 at heavyweight all-time.

Who and when you beat them should come into play when considering greatness and achivements

Manny Pacquiao has proven he is an all-time great fighter, but his accomplishments are tarnished and a lil overrated.

Since struggling to beat Marquez by a point he hasnt fought any good pure boxers, counterpunchers or technicians......he won two titles at a catchweight and both were completely slaughtered in their previous major fight(Margarito and Cotto)... Hatton was already kayoed by Mayweather....Mayweather outclassed Mosley already who is almost 40, and Clottey has never won a major fight.

Most people forget about the lose to a faded Morales who belongs beside Manny in the ATG ratings as well as Marquez who he never descisively beat...If Manny makes the top 20 all-time it wouldnt be fair not to include Morales(only fighter to beat Barrera and Pacquiao), Barrera, and Marquez even or right behind him..Joe Louis lost to Schmeling which is forgotten and his comp wasnt that great but it should and does affect his all-time rating as far as I go.


your thoughts

 

you're right I wanted to see some of the fights, but the timing sucked especially Mosley and Margarito who were dominated not too long before he fights them....Pac should have fought someone other than David Diaz at lightweight there was Marquez and Casamayor and a fight with Juan Diaz would have been exciting
....Besides fighting a shopworn Margarito he could've moved down and fought Alexander, Bradley, or even Berto who is at least a young hungry fighter

Joe Louis didnt duck anyone but he did fight in a very weak era....it wouldve been great if he fought George Godfrey who fought until 1937 or 38, a prime Jimmy Bivins who was the only fighjter to be number one contender at heavy and lt. heavy , Archie Moore, and also Elmer Ray

 

I have too agree....its hard seeing him be a champ in the late 60's-70's heavyweight era.

 

Jersey Joe Walcott had great skills but he wasnt a great fighter....too inconsistent and chinny.....Ezzard Charles is a top 5 ATG p4p fighter and a very good heavyweight champ in my book, but I wont hold it against Louis that he himself was past prime. IMO Charles was he beat opponent, not Marciano.:good

 

1) you are dead on
2) you are dead on but IMO it puts no pressure on Mayweather considering the way he dominated Both Mosley and Hatton they were climics. they have different styles so its hard to compare how they win.
3) As far as Diaz, idk honestly they went for the easy route, Casamayor, Marquez, and Juan Diaz , Nate Campbell, were there
4) before moving up to fight Margo those fights at 140 could have been made even at 147 where he held the WBO belt and Bradley shows he will move up if need be.
5) Its not his fault when he fights or the weights, its his management. They couldve fought Mosley in 09 but Roach said he was too good, the Margo fight couldve went on after he beat Cotto....its not Manny's fault but you have to consider alot of his opponents are past their best or took a recent drubbing

 

1) Juan Diaz held belts at lightweight for years, im talking about before he moved up or lost to campbell the opportunity was there, Casamayor, Nate Campbell Marquez whom he cant beat descively even with kd's. their is really no excuse lightweight was loaded
2) Alexander and Berto would pose a greater threat than previously kayoed or weight drained opponents DLH, Margarito, and Cotto
3) My avatar has nothing to do with my case. Ive had threads critcising Mayweather and other of fighters, im a boxing fan not a boxer's fan

 

of course:smoke .....I judge by When, How, and Who