Its shocking how strong the HW division is in the UK

Loudon · Jun 6, 2016

jdw2000 said: ↑

How small are these numbers they came over in? When did they arrive?

There is such a thing as DNA ****ysis thesedays. Genetic markers can be identified in populations. I am assuming you can find evidence of hunnic DNA in the current British population and post the link here?

It is not up to me to disprove your insane whitterings, boy. Why don't you prove to me that there isn't a giant, chocolate d1ldo orbiting the sun.
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Clinton · Jun 6, 2016

bailey said: ↑

Me noting someone having damaged hands, when it appears they probably genuinely did doesnt mean anything unless you are completely stupid.
Then again the comment of YOUR a fan speaks volumes. You can work it out
You may notice he was off longer between fights at that time. Hamed was a massive puncher and could stop fighters even when he had hand problems. There were times he had stopped fighters and mentioned in interviews that he thought his hand was broken.
Mayweather had damaged hands but scored a clean stoppage over Ortiz, so do you believe that Mayweather suddenly didnt have bad hands that day when he had previously atsch.
No, you believe I am a fan because I noted a big puncher had hand problems due to being a big puncher. Stupid even by your standards. Note Your

Whos trying to build a case.
Lufc has changed his scorecards for at least 2 fights that I know of. Getting into debates with posters, when arguing how he has scored fights and then coming back and saying he has just rewatched and then agrees.
I dont need to mount a case or really care to as he admits as much himself.
Seems you want a case to be made which seems that you are trying to argue for arguements sake, which is often what happens when someone realises their original points look daft. Probably why you called me a fan for noting a boxers damaged hands

Once again. Exactly what I wrote
not convinced someone as young as Lufc was watching Hamed when fighting Belcastro.

I never said anything about what you wrote in regards to Lufc watching Hamed. This is you going all over the place
Do you think someone watching odd highlights of past fights has the same knowledge as someone watching them live when living in the hype was happening and when fans were talking to each other about up and coming fights? Really?
If you do, I struggle to believe you would have been watching alot of the fights as they happened.

so what if Barrera was pre prime or not (which I dont think he was). I wrote that I dont think the brawler version of Barrera would have beaten the boxer version of Hamed or that the wild swinging Hamed would have beaten the boxer version of Barrera.
Still in answer it depends on the fighter. Look at how Benitez was a world champ at 17 but at 24 onwards started losing many fights. So was that in his prime at 24?
This is your logic

You did on the other thread when noting some of the fighters Hamed beat and who they lost to or would lose to, so I pointed out that at that time Barrera had lost also.
Seems you can only see things one way.
As I said before, I dont think the version of Barrera that was losing to Jones would have beaten Hamed at that time and I would add, they were of similar age so was one prime to you and not the other atsch. Fighters age differently. Wear and tear happens in different ways
Yes I think that version of Hamed would have beaten Barrera and when you consider how at that time Barrera was being beaten by Jnr Jones, not once but twice and who also wouldnt have been considered anywhere near the level of Barrera if you are looking back on it now like you are. thats the corner you have put yourself in!
the wild swinging version of Hamed was looking well beaten by the more technical Barrera but that wasnt the version of Hamed that used to box more and I would think even you could see Hamed used to box more.
Im not sure what the going away from boxing excuse is that you mentioned but do recall at first Hamed was fighting around 4 times a year as champ at first but over the last few years was only boxing a couple of times. Not sure if that is what you are going on about?
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Naseem Hamed was a fighter that always had a tiny boxing IQ. He always relied on his prodigious speed, power and reflexes throughout his career and not on his fundamentals, because he had none and was technically unsound. He always did everything wrong fundamentally. Against weaker opposition than MAB, guys like Robinson, Johnson and Belcastro-you know,the trio that you initially brought up on the other thread-he flourished as those 3 weren't anywhere near the same level as MAB which is also how I responded after you brought them up. In fact, I reminded you that Steve was 21-9, Tom was 33 years old and Belcastro was well, Belcastro. After you initially brought up Jones beating MAB twice, I wrote that that MAB was pre prime which you even disputed in your last post here. You're the one that initially mentioned the triangle theory. I don't know why you're denying it.

Your mentioning the Hamed had damaged hands excuse is one that has been repeated over and over again by every single one of his fans on these boards, making it a Hamed fan pattern on ESB. But, the damaged hands excuse didn't seem to affect his power as evidenced by his emphatic stoppages of the fellows he beat just before MAB. If you're not a fan of his as you claim, congratulations on being the 1st non fan of his on these boards to repeat that excuse.

If you accuse someone as having 'changed his scorecards' please have the common courtesy of backing up your statement. If you don't, you lack credibility. Luf has a lot more credibility than you do. And you've written 3 times that you're not convinced that someone as young as Lufcrazy was watching Hamed when fighting Belcastro. So what? If he says he has seen all of Hamed's fights, he has. He is a respected boxing historian that frequently has intelligent and insightful debates with other intelligent, experienced, seasoned posters on the Classic about fighters from all eras and the events surrounding those fights. He has far more credibility on ESB than you do. Go to the Classic and see for yourself. Or don't.

Funny you mentioned that fighters age differently and wear and tear happen in different ways. No ****. Thanks for that insight, Captain Obvious. And so what if Hamed would have beaten that version of MAB? Junior Jones did twiceatsch. You also wrote concerning that version of MAB 'so what if Barrera was pre prime or not(which I don't think he was)'. Ok then, so at what stage do you think Barrera was in his career when he fought Jones?
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Loudon · Jun 6, 2016

Clinton,

Naseem Hamed was a fighter that always had a tiny boxing IQ. He always relied on his prodigious speed, power and reflexes throughout his career and not on his fundamentals, because he had none and was technically unsound. He always did everything wrong fundamentally. Against weaker opposition than MAB, guys like Robinson, Johnson and Belcastro-you know,the trio that you initially brought up on the other thread-he flourished as those 3 weren't anywhere near the same level as MAB which is also how I responded after you brought them up. In fact, I reminded you that Steve was 21-9, Tom was 33 years old and Belcastro was nothing special in the 1st place. After you initially brought up Jones beating MAB twice, I wrote that that MAB was pre prime which you even disputed in your last post here. You're the one that initially mentioned the triangle theory. Please stop lying by saying I did.
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I was wondering where that Naz thread went.

A few questions if you don't mind:

1. When do you think Naz was prime?

2. When do you think MAB was prime?

3. What do you think would have been the outcome if they'd have fought prime for prime?

4. What do you think would have been the outcome if a prime MAB had fought Junior Jones?

Thanks.

:good

Clinton · Jun 6, 2016

Loudon said: ↑

Clinton,

I was wondering where that Naz thread went.

A few questions if you don't mind:

1. When do you think Naz was prime?

2. When do you think MAB was prime?

3. What do you think would have been the outcome if they'd have fought prime for prime?

4. What do you think would have been the outcome if a prime MAB had fought Junior Jones?

Thanks.

:good
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Cheers:good

1. Hard to gauge when Hamed was prime as he was always undisciplined and technically unsound. One of his best performances was against Steve Robinson but Steve had that predictable jab in peekaboo style and was somewhat limited. Steve was 21-9 going into that bout and Hamed looked great against him, but so what? I remember when he beat Tom Johnson, but Tom was already 33. Ask one of his fans and he'll tell you that the Hamed that beat Steve would have won the bout against MAB. Considering how technically unsound and dumb Hamed was, no way.

2. MAB was prime at 126 around the years 2000-2004. His great performances against another great in Morales would indicate that.

3. Prime MAB was far more technically and fundamentally sound than low IQ Hamed and was proven against better fighters than Hamed was. Prime MAB beats any version of Hamed.

4. Prime MAB is an atg. Junior Jones had physical advantages over men his weight and was good, but not elite. When they fought, MAB wasn't the finished product. The version of MAB against Morales was. Prime MAB convincingly beats any version of Junior Jones.

I'm curious to know what you think.

Clinton · Jun 6, 2016

Serge said: ↑

It's a difficult one to predict. Joshua is very powerful and he's quick too, whereas Fury is more fluid and a better boxer. I can easily envisage seeing Joshua winning via stoppage but I can also just as easily envisage seeing Fury out boxing him and making him look bad. Who do you lean towards in this one?
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:goodI completely agree with your assessment. I would like to add that Tyson acts completely bat**** but is very shrewd and knows how to get inside someone's head as well as anyone as I can remember. He is more seasoned and experienced and right now, the best heavyweight in the world. Due to those reasons I would give him a slight edge at this particular point in time. Having written that, AJ is a monster and nothing he accomplishes would surprise me. Finally the heavyweight division is worth talking about again:good

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Its shocking how strong the HW division is in the UK

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Clinton Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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Its shocking how strong the HW division is in the UK

Loudon Loyal Member Full Member

Clinton Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

Loudon Loyal Member Full Member

Clinton Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

Clinton Obsessed with Boxing Full Member