I've just re-watched AJ vs Usyk - Paying close attention, you may think a bit differently....

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by Vegan Beast, Sep 29, 2021.


  1. Vegan Beast

    Vegan Beast Grandpappy Ortiz Full Member

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    I was at the stadium watching this fight, and when I first saw it I struggled to give AJ more than 2 rounds.

    I just rewatched it for the first time at home on TV. This time I scored it 8-4 Usyk, BUT some of the rounds were closer than I thought. For some reason, watching it a second time and being attentive to it.... it doesn't feel like the same absolute shut out I remembered on the night. 8-4 is pretty dominant, but some of those rounds were close where both fighters landed.

    DON'T GET ME WRONG - Usyk clearly won that fight, but it wasn't as one sided as I thought.

    -----------------------

    Here's some point I'd like tor raise -

    1. AJ's corner completely screwed him over. He should consider sacking them.

    I know a lot of you agree that AJ got his tactics wrong, but it's worse than you think...

    Watch it again and listen to what his corner are saying to him - "Stay behind that jab, and let him come to you".... and AJ's stance was to take a completely un-aggressive approach the WHOLE fight. There were times where AJ hurt Usyk and didn't follow up at all. You may argue it was because AJ was scared, and although that was definitely a factor, his corner were reinforcing a passive mentality the whole game. AJ has been hurt before but it didn't stop him continuing to come forward and finish the fight. In this match, his corner I think were more to blame than anyone. THIS IS NOT AN EXCUSE, but it's a factor that matters. AJ is unsure of himself, and his corner are not helping him.

    2) Usyk at times does look vulnerable, and his gas tank is not as good as some people think -

    I'm convinced now the only reason Usyk makes it to round 10-12 so frequently is because of fantastic management of energy, and because he usually starts slow. It's not because his gas tank is insane.

    Usyk's quick and dominant start RNDS 1-4 cost him a bit, and in the 5-8th round he didn't look as sharp, and was noticeably feeling the effects of the previous 4 rounds. In these rounds, AJ had more success, and could AND SHOULD have gone after him. It can be argued AJ won rounds 5,6 and 8, and landed some solid right hands. Usyk was hurt by Joshua in these rounds.

    But the main fact of rounds 5-8 is Usyk being more static. That's what happens to Usyk in his slower rounds. It's not just less effort in punches, it's slower body movement.


    Usyk, despite what people say about his gas tank, CANNOT keep the same pace up for 12 rounds. Him being slower in the middle rounds was not purely a tactical choice, such as trying to lure Joshua in to counter him, it was mainly because he needed time to rest and conserve energy for the rounds he wanted to make the most impact, and it's in these rounds you need to hurt Usyk or you will lose later.

    Usyk is a genius. Even in the rounds where he is the most vulnerable, he will find ways to sort of bluff charge you or hurt you just enough to deter you from finishing him. He's a genius when it comes to fighting, but he's beatable.

    You could argue that you may gas yourself out before his 2nd wind, but if you REALLY HURT Usyk, then does that not impact Usyk? No one has really hurt Usyk or knocked him down, and we don't know yet how he'll respond to being knocked down.

    Usyk is yet to be properly found out, but I think he will be a nut that is cracked eventually, by more than one person.

    3) In relation to the above, I'm not a hater of Usyk, I like him, but p4p ATG? Whooping Ali in fantasy fights? - Do not get carried away just yet. Wait to see what happens in the rematch and in later fights.

    Consider rewatching the fight, it's on youtube now - Watch it attentively with no bias.
     
  2. humbug

    humbug In Vino Veritas Full Member

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    Last edited: Sep 30, 2021
  3. ipitythefool

    ipitythefool Prediction ? Pain Full Member

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    I had it 9-3. Best I could give AJ was losing by 8-4.

    It wasn't a complete shut out. Just a tremendous performance from Usyk. I thought AJ did OK , had some success but clearly lost to the better boxer
     
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  4. Lesion of Doom

    Lesion of Doom Boxing Addict Full Member

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    8-4 is fine. So is 9-3. Can't find 5 for AJ, tho, unless you are doing some biased scoring.
     
  5. ShovelHook

    ShovelHook Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Some of those numbers seem like total horse****.
     
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  6. iii

    iii Boxing Addict Full Member

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    AJ lost...badly....fool
     
  7. N17

    N17 Loyal Member Full Member

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    I think we are now at the "bargaining" stage with AJ fans now.

    They want positives for AJ, so a trade off with "Usyk won but.."


    I think these AJ fans are so far gone "acceptance" will only happen when Usyk wins the rematch.
     
  8. IsaL

    IsaL VIP Member Full Member

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    I had it 8-4 Usyk on my second watch with two additional rounds being close.
     
  9. alangjk

    alangjk Active Member Full Member

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    I have to watch it again. On Saturday, I was thinking of scoring history and how the judges are watching a different fight. Even after the beating in the 12th round, I was still expecting to hear, ''and still.''
     
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  10. bbjc

    bbjc Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Probably true but tbf...usyk knows what hes doing over the course of a fight. Lets say we give joshua the rounds you say...5,6 and 8. He was shot by the 9th. He lost every round on all cards from there on in. Was almost stopped in the 12th and ended up on his stool getting a breather after the fight finished.

    Maybe it wasn,t usyks tactic to lose them rounds but joshua had to work too hard to win them rounds. Thats part of the secret of usyks success over his career. His gameplans almost always to get the opponent working harder than they want to be working. A lot of his game is just that hence why he tries to attack you just after your attack. Its designed to drain the opponent. Or he draws your shots with his feignts and movement.

    Its all designed to tire you out and it worked to a t against joshua just as it did against bellew. The bellew fight was actually quite close in terms of scoring but in reality usyk was establishing his plan of getting bellew working too hard and in the end in was all over with a couple of well placed shots. The washington fight the same.

    Too me the best gameplan for the rematch for joshua is to accept you wont win on points. He has to fight in bursts. Hes got to work on cornering usyk...then letting his hands go. It,ll all come down to if he can get the decision making right on when to let his hands go and when not to bother. Dont punch with usyk. Needs to cover up as he moves forward. You,ve got to reverse the roles on usyk. You want him working hard too keep you off him and when he does thats when you start letting your hands go. Has to be conservative with it at the same time tho. Chisora gave him a fight going forward...the mistake he made tho was he threw recklessly. Ended up knackered by the 6th. If you can do the same thing but be far more efficient...you,ve got half a chance only because you should be the bigger/stronger man being the heavyweight.

    Part of his problem was he concentrated too much on boxing him he forgot about his defence.

    Hardly surprising usyks stamina can be affected...hes 34 years old...fighting 20 lbs above his optimum weight...with a high energy style...fighting a guy a lot bigger than him. As great as he is saturday night imo was an unbelievable achievement when we look over the history of cruisers moving up...its not an easy thing to do.
     
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  11. shza

    shza Active Member Full Member

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    I disagree with the gas tank piece, as Usyk did his best instinctive boxing and showed his true quality after he had "gassed"... He had so mastered the distance by the 10th that he could slip damn near all of AJ's punches with minimal movement. He was clearly tired but he looked as though he could fight at that pace for 20 rounds.
     
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  12. Vegan Beast

    Vegan Beast Grandpappy Ortiz Full Member

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    But he took time off in the middle rounds to be able to pick up the pace in the later rounds though, that's part of the reason why Joshua won 3/4 middle rounds.
     
  13. gollumsluvslave

    gollumsluvslave Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Great post, 100% spot on!
     
  14. Vegan Beast

    Vegan Beast Grandpappy Ortiz Full Member

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    Towards the end, I wanted Usyk to get his decision because he clearly deserved it and I was worried they'd rob him. I want the true winner of the fight to win the fight, regardless of how much I love a particular fighter. I took an unbiased view.

    I don't NEED to believe Joshua can win the rematch, I simply noticed flaws and vulnerabilities of Usyk's that are definitely exploitable.

    I think I made perfectly sound arguments.

    I am fully aware Usyk won and won clearly, I scored it 8-4 which is what the two better judges had it. 2 rounds Joshua clearly won, 2 rounds Joshua did just enough to nick them. It's hardly me being overly biased, is it?

    I just don't think it's as one sided as some people think, and if you rewatch the fight and really take notes, you'll see Joshua did better than we thought initially. The things I'm saying I believe are directly observable, especially the instructions from AJ's corner, advising him to lack aggression.
     
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  15. MrBarry465

    MrBarry465 Active Member Full Member

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    Whilst AJ got a couple of rounds, at no point at all did I think he was in any control of the match. Usyk won convincingly and AJ has a mountain to climb in the rematch.
     
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