'I've seen Ray Leonard, and Roy Jones is no Ray Leonard.'

I love both guys but I'd have to agree. In a P4P fight, I can see Ray Leonard winning a split decision over Roy. Leonard is more adaptable, and is willing to rumble if necessary.

Roy is mostly an outside fighter and although he doesn't have many problems on the inside in his prime, I can see Ray winning because he'd want it more.

 

In terms of resume, absolutely!

What we're arguing here is two-fold: 1) How much Jones is hurt by a perceived lack of competition and 2) To what extent a fighter must struggle to prove his greatness.

 

But what if Jones is simply better? I'm not saying he is, but at some point ability will exceed heart.

If it didn't, then you would have more fighters like Arturo Gatti succeeding on the world stage. He fought some guys who weren't as tough as him, but they had superior ability. Heart and character are great, but they can take you only so far.

I disagree with the "wanting it more" part. Leonard fought his heart out against Hearns because he had to. If he could have outclassed Hearns, he would have.

Jones never was challenged -- the guy hardly lost rounds -- and when he was for the first time, in a depleted state, he fought like a champion. Do you expect him to get into slugfests when he can win 120-108 on a consistent basis?

These criticisms have been levied against Pernell Whitaker as well, and those are no more valid, IMO.

 

I'm not arguing at all.

I simply stated that now in hindsight, it's not unreasonable to say that Larry made a successful observation of how Roy Jones Career unfolded.

In terms of resume, Sugar Ray Leonard is superior.

Everything else is speculation and not of much value in my estimation.

 

I disagree with this particular sentiment McGrain.

You have named what Hopkins was, but relative to Jones, he was still a smaller draw. Hopkins was MW champion, but Jones was the unified, if not Lineal, LHW champion and his belts would have been on the line. Also looming was Jones previous victory over Hopkins and the fact that Jones was regarded higher as a P4P fighter. I think a strong argument can be made that Jones was correct in asking for 60%.

A good parallel here is the fact that Marquez, despite being champion in both his fights with Pacquiao, took less money than Pacquiao. You don't have to be Leonard or De La Hoya to make other champions take less than you. Currently if Klitscho unified with another champion, he would get the lions share of the money.

 

I'd bet RJJ

 

I'm just thankful that we got to see Ray Leonard and Roy Jones Jnr in the ring. Both of these guys are legends

 

Just out of curiosity, and not that it's at all pertinent to a P4P or all time ranking discussion, who would pick the Ray Leonard who decisioned (I'm using as neutral a word as possible) Hagler at 160 over '93-'94 Roy?

 

Ray Leonard is no Ray Leonard.

 

Bloody hell a 4 page thread on Jones with no hating in sight :shock:

I love both Jones and Leonard, when one shining light dimmed he was replaced by another one is the way I remember boxing back then.

Leonard had his pluses and his minuses, people tend to gloss over that. Yes he had better comp than Jones no-one can dispute that but in his prime he did lose a fight that he should have won due to poor tactics/ring generalship or whatever you want to call it. He avenged it in great style in the rematch (or two rematches if you want to call that third one a fight) but he also got ********* by Hearns for the majority of their two encounters, I certainly felt he lost the 2nd one.

I do think that Leonards win over Hagler was better than anything Jones ever accomplished though. Maybe if Jones had taken that Hopkins rematch back in 2001-2 and won easily (which he probably would have) then he'd be ranked higher, but is that Ruiz win under-rated?

Tough one to call for me as to who is the better fighter, they were equally brilliant in my eyes. One thing I will say though is that judging them both on fights they had at 35+ is just wrong, if you're going to bring up the Tarver and Johnson fights to bash Jones then you can bring up the Norris and Camacho fights to bash Ray - I'd prefer it if people just judged them on their prime rather than come out with the tired **** about Jones having a glass jaw.

 

Yep, that's the way I see it too. Also bear in mind that 40% at that time would still have been Hopkins biggest payday to date as I understand it. Out of interest does anyone know what the purses were for Hopkins V Trinidad? I've got a feeling Tito got more but I'm not positive about that.

Can anyone here name a fight where in the rematch the loser of the first fight got 50-50? Maybe Benn-Eubank 2?

 

you can't be serious? LOL

 

I am no fan of Ray Leonard at all. In fact, I thought he was cheap-ass for never giving rematches, and a whiner for always wanting the big advantages in fights - i.e. large rings, catch weights locations etc.

BUT

he is far better than rjj