Jack Dempsey (1919) vs James Toney (2003, vs Jirov/Holyfield)

Wrong. You're wrong.

 

Dempsey by ko, I like his speed, power and meanness

 

Seems like someone's in denial. :tong

 

In what ways is Dempsey raw and or crude?

 

He lacked effective defense( especially in this case) didn't work behind a consistent jab and was mainly a tough brawler and a very hard puncher. Technical fighters like Toney feast on these type of fighters. I respect Dempsey so don't me wrong and he is a legend, but Toney would simpy be too good. I also like how people say that he would stop Toney, when James hasn't even came close to being knocked out.

 

Toney was nothing more then a fat heavy, he would lose this one

 

if we had a time machine the only thing debatable would be if tony could make it thru 5 rounds with this animal who could hit as fast as a middleweight and harder than 90% of todays heavys,i respect tonys skills fights alot like walcott but he would not only get ko,d but if he somehow lasted it would be a ruined fighter afterwords

 

Lacked effective defense? Wrong. His head and upper body movement are some of the best the division has ever seen. He also kept his chin tucked in and was good at rolling with punches. He didn't work behind a jab because that wasn't the kind of fighter he was. He slipped and ducked, got inside and went to work. He fought in close, and he didn't need a jab to get there. He did throw jabs on occasion, though, I think he first KD of Carpentier was a accomplished with a left/right combo. he also describes how to throw a jab in his book. His foot work, mobility, combination punching and balance were also exceptional.

 

I think he could last if he fought like Gibbons.

 

Its weird how people bring all of that stuff up, but i have never seen any of it and have watched plenty of his fights, even his exhibition fight 15 years after he retired. Here he is against the first technical boxer that they put him in with( who was previously like Toney, a middlweight) and he came up short both times. I just don't see it. Again he was great for his time, but in Toney he would be going against something above him. Toney has more in his arsenal than Tunney and is more polish, the only advantage that Tunney has over James is more lateral movement and foot work, which would be made up with Toney's master defense and countering ability.

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He was well past his best when he fought Tunney. Plus Tunney was more fleet footed then a fat toney

 

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I think against Holyfield Toney showed phenomenal foot and handspeed and by heavyweight standards thats world class, the fight would go to the score cards for sure but i'm torn up on who the winner would be, if toney got in the zone and started tagging dempsey with overhand rights, under the jab uppercuts or cut off his jab with his own jab he would most likely win. Dempsey at his best wins anything other than that Toney wins

 

Dempsey had very good defence his head movement is probably the best at heavy. I would pick Jack to stop Toney in the mid rounds but maybe it goes the distance with Dempsey winning a decision.
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look at his head movement in this vid.