Jack Dempsey (1919) vs James Toney (2003, vs Jirov/Holyfield)

His hands down defense is not 'very good' at times its shockingly bad. His head movement is good but with his hands down like that a good boxer peppers him just like Tunney did. Hes open to all kinds of shots

 

Winky Wright, who is regarded as one of the premier defensive fighters of this age, would find himself in quite a conundrum if he fought out of the same peek-a-boo. It just wouldn't yield the same effect if he were fighting in those thin, horsehair gloves. Rather, it was generally best to keep the arms outstretched or tucked to protect the ribs. In this way, the arms took most of the punishment instead of the head and body.

 

the more I think about this one, the less rounds Toney lasts.

 

Toney by TKO in the later rounds or decision win.

In case of decision win Toney knocks him down few times.

 

It is appalling the lack of understanding regarding the brilliance of Dempsey on this board.

 

What Brilliance? His Management was brilliant, keeping him away from the good black fighters of his era..Dempsey wasnt that special..Whats really appalling is some people have him in there top 10

 

You r clueless, sorry but its the truth

 

Toney UD. Seriously.

Toney's major flaw is/was that he had problems with speedsters and guys that wouldn't engage him directly, like RJJ. Anybody who came straight at him got eaten up. And now I'm waiting to be inundated with "Dempsey liked to circle his opponents and then pounce like some kind of crazed wolverine or rabid animal, he never came straight in"...

I'm not going to lie - I'm not very fond of Dempsey. To be honest, I think he was kind of a fraud. A hype-job, if you will. A terrible champion who either ducked his top challenger(s) or let his promoter keep them away - bull**** in any case - and kept the title hostage for the greater part of a decade. To see him in a top 5 heavyweight ATG list puzzles me. IMO, he's a lower top 10 ranking. He was a very good/great fighter, certainly an ATG, but his career was a circus!

But none of that matters in this matchup. I'm biased against Dempsey's legacy and career, but not his ability as a fighter.

James Toney, probably the finest modern slickster with a legendary chin to boot, would be a nightmare for him.

 

Dempsey was one of the most inactive champions of all times.

Didn't he have a break fot three years without fighting anyone?

 

Dempsey was shot and coming off a long period of inactivity at this point.

If you want to see Dempseys defence in action then watch the Gibbons fight and then compare it to any of Tysons fights.

Dempsey had the better head movment.

 

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Just wanted to comment on something -

I think this is very debatable. Toney had very good power at middle/light-heavy and retained most of his power up to cruiser, fighting guys that were heavier than nearly all of Tunney's opponents. Tunney's only good KO win at heavy was over a Gibbons at the end of his career. His other three stoppages were over two losing-record guys and a clubfighter.

I don't think Tunney had that kind of power, especially at heavy. He has a more impressive KO% at heavy because he didn't fight durable guys like Toney. Toney stopped Holyfield, albeit an old one, and he pretty much TKO'd Rahman in their last fight.

Toney has a shown a very strong ability to break guys down with accurate counterpunching throughout his career. It's what he does. He's not the most powerful puncher, but the way he makes you pay for every shot with that shoulder roll defense is both physically damaging and demoralizing...look at how he stopped Holyfield and had Jirov in trouble in 12.

 

Good black fighter. Harry Wills. No other black fighter of the day would have stood a chance against him. Langford, Mcvea and Jeanette were all too old and Norfolk would have been destroyed.

 

Dempsey wins. work rate, power, uses a lot of foul hits (which I'm sure many would connect with toney shoulder rollin all the time)

Wait I got a question... what era are they fighting in? Dempsey era more foul hits and rushing the guy when he tries to get up, and smaller gloves

 

I don't think Toney beats Sharkey or Tunney, for what it's worth.