You need to watch some footage of both Dempsey and Tunney,before making such sweeping statements. Tunney had 48 kos in 66 wins he hit pretty good especially with his quick right cross,which was the punch that dropped Dempsey momentarily. Interestingly ,the referee Barry immediately took up the count though Tunney had NOT gone to a neutral corner ,or even moved away from the fallen Dempsey. Firpo was crude but he could really hit with his right, if he landed flush he had the capability of dropping just about anyone. Ali did have enough pop to drop Dempsey ,and most everybody else,keeping him down might be a bit more difficult however.
Dempsey - Frazier like Paq - Marguez ... I see the fast starting Dempsey capable of dropping Joe a few times early with a warmed up Joe giving him all he can handle after that ... Dempsey had a rock chin. He was only stopped once in his whole career. He took shots from much bigger hitters than Ali. Tunney caught him with a perfectly timed right that dumped an off balance Jack for a flash knockdown. I see Dempsey easily absorbing Ali's power and having the hand speed, foot speed, power and stamina to give him a very tough night. Tougher than Frazier in a head to head match up. Dempsey was a better two handed puncher and faster. Foreman of 73 is very over rated to me. He was brutally strong and a murderous hitter but did not pace himself, was very wild and could be hit. Slow starting sluggers like Frazier or Marciano match up terribly however a lightning fast starter like Dempsey might have tagged him fast and hurt him. In a wild , drag out fight it might not be that different than Firpo, another huge, extremely strong hard punching slugger. I would not pick Jack but I say he has a fair shot in this match up.
That is true and doesn't get talked about a lot. Tunney was a very sharp puncher, but he didn't hit hard. Compared to Ali? No way Ali definitely had more power and ability to put you down. This, on top of Firpo dropping him twice (Whether one was a push punch) and the fact that Flynn KOed Dempsey in the first round also leaves me to believe his durability is overrated. But you'll see guys like Cox give him a 10 in that category while fighters like Rocky and Frazier who were hurt less or at least by bigger punchers and better fighters. Ali might've dropped Frazier in the 2nd fight in Round 2 when the ref intervened, however, I think it's safe to say Frazier might've kept himself up. I don't think Ali could drop Frazier in any other 3 fights once, maybe, but he didn't. I also think the odds Rocky stays on his feet would be good, too. But compared to Tunney, it's light and day. Ah okay. Not exactly stylistically comparing but naturally how the fight could turn out. Firpo had him down twice - once out of the ring (Push and punch and all). Flynn had him down in round 1. That sort of thing should never happen to an ATG elite, and it hasn't happened since (With Lewis being the only comparable example). Tunney was backing up and caught him with a right cross (Not a jab, error on my part) that dropped him. Tunney is a sharp puncher, but no where near a better puncher nor does he have the power of an Ali. How could Ali not be able to drop him - flash knockdown and all? Flash knockdowns happen, I understand. But in terms of a rock iron chin where does he rate next to Frazier and Marciano? Frazier clearly took on bigger foes, and was rocked the most of all three of them. Also downed the most, but barring the Foreman fight that tells a different story. Interesting to hear your perspective on that. Firpo's power is no where near Foreman's. Foreman would drop Dempsey badly and would continously knock him to the floor. That's the big difference between Firpo and Foreman... besides Foreman being much better, stronger, bigger in power and more fierce an opponent. Firpo was a bull of a man himself but didn't have no where near the raw strength/power. Dempsey was getting even on pushing/battling terms inside, against Foreman he would be pushed and slammed with an uppercut and left for dead. I see how a fast starter might have better hope than that Frazier we saw but I don't think he can bang Foreman out of there.
Firpo was a monster hitter. Look at his KO's of Brennan and Willard. The power he displayed v.s. Dempsey speaks for itself. Maybe Big George tears Dempsey's head off. I did not say I'd put my money on Dempsey, just that I think he would have a hell of a shot because of Foreman's weaknesses as well. I do not think Dempsey has the same shot or close to any against Liston, Tyson or Lewis, other huge punchers, who were much sharper punchers than George. I think Dempsey, Marciano and Frazier are all in the same catagory of chin strength. Frazier is the most underated. Marciano's wa terrific against who he fought but he clearly fought the lightest hitters of the three. Maybe Rocky's is the best but he never had to prove it so it's a bit open to question over just how great.
Dempsey...Dempsey A Fast Starter could get Frazier out there Early when he was most vaulnerable Dempsey.....i just think Louis' Chin would let him down Ali....to Fast, to Much Movement
1950 joe louis would embarras Luis Firpo. I doubt Luis would win more than 2 of the 15 rounds. Louis would jab him to death, and outbox him at all ranges/angles. If Fipro keeps his hands to low, Louis could also end things right there by cleaning his clock. Firpo is just too crude and wild to dream of beating a skilled older fighter like Louis.
I think they all beat him, Joe Louis especially. Better form to his punches, if Dempsey came otu swinging Louis would demolish him IMO
SQ: Doubtful. Firpo much too strong and hard hitting for an old Louis with limited firepower and shot legs. I say Luis stops him just like Rocky did.
Williard was around 40 and it took him 8 rounds to do it. Brennan was Koed in the 12th round, while being the 15+ pounds smaller (Since I know you love weight). Hardly would I ever call that impressive nor a monster hitter. In modern day rules one of those wouldn't be a knockdown in a non-title fight and the other is just an old big man going down. In likelihood, they could just as well be sustained beatings. The power doesn't speak volumes about Firpo but Dempsey's over-stated durability. He does. Marciano definitely didn't clearly fight the lightest hitters of the three. Considering the amount of punishment he did take in some bouts, unless of course you believe his defense was better than Dempsey and or Frazier. It's different and works differently depending upon various styles like most styles. And considering how Dempsey was KOed in 1 round to Flynn while being dropped by Firpo twice and Tunney once... I don't know. Jersey Joe ripped a left hook/uppercut that knocked Charles all over the ring but didn't faze Rocky enough to keep him on the floor for more than 3 seconds. And he didn't see it... again, though, not to harp but you also see Dempsey is being an equal hitter to Marciano (At one point was in position to believe he hit harder). I just don't see how you can see that. But you're entitled, of course. Rocky took such a sustained amount of shots from Jersey Joe. Jersey Joe was a terrific puncher. I think that in and of it self proves his durability in comparison to Dempsey and what opposition did to him.
Marciano did not fight one 200 plus pound , physically prime heavyweight in his entire career. His two hardest hitting opponents were Joe Walcott and Archie Moore. Can we get real here ? It's irrevelant how long it took Firpo to take them out. I'm talking about his power, not ability as a fighter. I'm amazed how many can't seperate the two. Ron Lyle was an exceptional puncher. He was also relitively slow of hand and foot which is why he does not have a record studded with KO's over big names. It does not mean he was not a big puncher, just a limited fighter. When Firpo took them out it was with tremendous shots. In addition, unlike many sluggers, Firpo kept his power late in a fight. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5uj7oBXwwMo
Ithink a prime dempsey has a heck of a shot at ko,n any of them,the hardest being a runnin ali if he fights the ali of ziare? he ko,s ali .ali would have to keep his distannce to survive
Let's be real. Firpo is a good puncher but he's not what you're making him out to be. He didn't knock out a world class opponent besides Brennan and an aging Williard. Of course how long it takes them out is relevant. Firpo may be sloppy, but it's just as conceivable that these were sustained beatings due to an accumulation of punches rather than good power. Lyle has far proven himself as a puncher than Firpo. If Rocky's 1 punch KO was somewhat linked to a sustained beating as you've posted before, then the Brennan KO in the 12th is no way shape or from strong proof of how tremendous of a puncher he is especially in comparison to Marciano's opponents. Walcott is quite honestly much more proven a puncher as far as I'm concerned. He had Louis down 3 (Or was it 4) times in 2 fights and the 250 pound Abe Simon said he hit harder than anyone he ever fought. You'll bring up his record or KO percentage without acknowledging his depression-conditioned fights nor his style in choose. Dempsey was out in 1 round against Flynn and Tunney had him down. Who would you say had better power at LHW - Charles or Tunney? Rocky's chin was better, just like how his power was.
Dempsey has become underated as years pass. He would have only lost --maybe--to Louis, Marciano, or Tyson. He beats anyone else, regardless of size, weight, their muscles, or whatever anyone who disregards him goes by.
