Jack Dempsey and Harry Wills, the timeline

Suze lets see if Klompton responds to my invitation to give the years that he thinks Wills was the number one challenger,if he doesn't I'll get back to you:good

 

Writers were claiming Wills as the best contender as soon as 1919, if not before.

Three years seems awfully unforgiving.

If nothing else, I would like to see the reasoning that puts Wills behind Brennan, Miske, Gibbons, Firpo and Carpentier.

 

Harry Wills was a top heavyweight for a decade by the time that Jack Dempsey agreed to fight Gene Tunney for the first time. It may be that Wills had a few indifferent performances in a few bouts, but he still piled up a terrific record while being quite active for a top heavyweight. Has there been any other heavyweight of his stature who was unable to get a shot at the title during the last 100 years?

- Chuck Johnston

 

Harry Wills record during Dempsey's reign is underwhelming on close inspection.

But he was the best of a poor crop, and Dempsey's reign was hardly amazing either.

 

I don't have the telegrams.
They were produced in court in two cases, I believe, relating to other matters (Tunney's troubles perhaps?).
I expect you know all about this anyway.

 

There is no doubt that Wills was Dempsey's top/most deserving contender from July 1920 through October 1926. The Tate fights werent even a blip on the radar and even if they were that would have interrupted his standing for what? 2 months max. In fact, that was such a short period of time that when the NBA actually started issuing quarterly ratings IF they had decided to downgrade Wills based on those fights (which is HIGHLY debateable) he would have been bumped right back up before they ever even had a chance to issue revised ratings so from report to report you wouldnt have seen any change in his standing.


As for Janitors comments on Madden "showing up" Wills. Well, have you seen Madden's face after he "showed up" Wills?? It was a grotesquely swollen mass. Wills dominated him and won every round easily. Just like he did when Firpo "showed him up." I guess losing every round in dominant fashion is a new way of "showing up" a fighter? I dont know. Its certainly not the way I would have wanted to "show someone up." Some people seized on the Madden fight and the Firpo fight as a way of discrediting Wills because he didnt stop those guys and the fights werent exciting but both of those fights took place when Wills was 35 years old and had been a contender a decade and the top contender for 4 or 5 years. Others saw them for what they were, dominant performances against one guy that Dempsey went life and death with and another human punching bag that Dempsey had been trying to get sanctioned for years to defend against. You cant sit there and work for years trying to get Madden selected as one of your handpicked opponents and then ***** when a guy dominates him and rearranges his face. Wills did what he was supposed to do he got rid of someone that Dempsey was trying to defend against, Greb did the same thing whenever he could and met with as much resistance as Wills did.

Thats like saying Chuvalo showed up Ali in their first fight except Chuvalo actually won a couple of rounds from Ali and took less of a beating than Madden did against Wills. Ludicrous. It shows the lengths to which some are/were willing to descredit Wills.

 

So youve seen them? Or read their contents? If so they can reproduced, if not I call bull****. Dempsey had already agreed to fight Tunney (and Tunney was already signed) by very early 1926. All of those negotiations were kept under the table so the NYSAC didnt get a whiff of them until later so as to prevent them from stripping Dempsey and the NBA from following suit. Both were the two most powerful boxing organizations and both were after Dempsey, one because he hadnt defended his title in 3 years and the other because he refused to fight Wills and was leading the commission around by the nose. And what is lost in all of this back room dealing with Dempsey maneuvering to avoid Wills is that Kearns isnt in the picture. Rickard and Kearns are always blamed as being behind Dempsey not fighting Wills but the fake Fitzsimmons episode and Dempsey's dodging Wills from 1925 on was totally his own doing. By that point Kearns influence in his career was non-existent. In fact when it became obvious that Dempsey was trying to leave him and Kearns was trying to protect his license in New York he rushed to the NYSAC and tried to sign Dempsey to fight Wills. By that point he didnt care if Dempsey lost and only wanted to save his license because he now had Walker who could get big purses on the east coast. Dempsey did everything he could to shut Kearns down from signing him to fight Wills and was successful.

 

Who said my "raving indignations" (i.e. facts that Dempsey apologists cant stand to listen to) were directed at you.

 

They were produced and reported in court, much like a lot of the stuff you claim and parlay as evidence .... but, obviously, I suspect you have vastly different standards for things that don't suit your agenda.

Never said anything about Kearns.
he wasn't in the picture, correct, so why you talking about him ?

 

And since some on here seem certain that Wills didnt even come into contention until after he beat Fulton:

In May 1919 while Dempsey is still training for Willard an article can be found saying that Kearns planned to hire Wills as a sparring partner naming him second only to Dempsey and Willard.

Immediately after winning the title, while being interviewed on the train passing through Utah Dempsey draws the color line.

In July 1919 Bob Shand writes an article listing Wills as the most formidable opponent for Dempsey.

As a direct result of Dempsey drawing the color line an elimination series is set up for black HWs in mid/late 1919 which Wills wins.

In late 1919 Wills was called "the biggest eclipse in pugilism" by the Portland Journal.

In December of 1919 the Cincinnati Enquirer (an excellent boxing paper btw) states that Dempsey has drawn the color line to avoid fighting Harry Wills. Fred Fulton also turns down a fight with Wills this month.

So Wills was very highly thought at least by the time Dempsey won the title in some quarters.

 

In 1920, Dempsey claimed he was broke and needed any fight he could get, Wills included. He was ringside for the Fulton-Wills fight and had promised to take on the winner.

How did that turn out?

 

And then he immediately signed to fight the dying Billy Miske right after Wills knocked out Fulton.