Jack Dempsey and The Color Line...

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Seamus, Aug 4, 2013.


  1. Seamus

    Seamus Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    or for you of the British Persuasion (wink, wink), The Colour Line.

    OK, I know he drew the color line on July 5th, 1919. What's the official timeline on his relationship with this wonderful heavyweight institution? Can we ever really believe he dropped his stance of 7/5/19 or merely pursued "racial exclusion by other means" to paraphrase Clausewitz?

    Enlighten me.
     
  2. LittleRed

    LittleRed Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    No color line was drawn.
     
  3. Seamus

    Seamus Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I like this column from July, 1925 by W.O. McGeehan...

    "The news has penetrated to this section of the beautiful Cumberlands that Jack Demsey is prepared to fight. Just as Mr. Buckshot Morgan was about to dispatch Loping Charley to Robinson's drug store with the news, he learned that Dempsey would not battle Wills until a year from the coming Labor day.
    "Guess the news will keep," said Buckshot. "If that is the case it is hardly worth sending Loping Charley to the store after he has had a hard day. It appears to me that Mr. Dempsey is mighty slow to get real quarrelsome these days."
    This sounds rather unreasonable on the part of Buckshot Morgan or he would not have been so free with the implied criticism. You must remember that it took the US over a year to train enough divisions to make a creditable showing in the world war. Mr Dempsey knows something about preparedness. he is not going to rush into a fight with the Senegambian with the rashness of a nation entering a war. There is too much involved, as any of Mr. Dempsey's friends can testify. (my input: this is last statement is ****ing hilarious)

    Sometime ago before Mr. Dudley Field Malone socked Mr. William Jennings Bryan on the jaw and found that is was of glass, it seems to me that the boxing commission was insisting that Harry Wills, the Senegambian stevedore, was the one and only logical candidate and that Dempsey must meet him or be declared null and void.

    Now I like young Mr. Gene Tunney better than any young man actively associated with the cauliflower industry, but I cannot join in the ballyhoo of a Dempsey Tunney bout until the status of the Senegambian stevedore is settled. If they intend to draw the invisible color line and the Senegambian what the boys would call "the work" or "the run around" it will be my painful duty to point out the fact that the three dukes- Farley, Muldoon and Brower- talk through their hats frequently and fearsomely."
     
  4. Seamus

    Seamus Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Yes, of course...

    This content is protected
     
  5. HOUDINI

    HOUDINI Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Which was the American tradition of all white heavyweight champions to that point in time. It was expected that every hwt champion declare the hwt title white only. It took a Canadian, Tommy Burns, to give Johnson a title shot even though the boxing world was against it. As a Canadian he was not ingrained with the American status quo prejudice of a white only hwt championship.
     
  6. LittleRed

    LittleRed Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    And. Newspapers said Dewey beat Truman. It's just a headline.
     
  7. HOUDINI

    HOUDINI Boxing Addict Full Member

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    And less than a year later the nytimes has another headline.....Color line erased by Dempsey. The article quotes Dempsey that it was his management that told him to draw the color line because Kearns felt mixed matches were injurious to the sport of boxing and he has no issue fighting a black man. ..."you can say by me and make it as strong as you like that I have no scruples Whatsoever about boxing them"
     
  8. Seamus

    Seamus Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Were it but so.

    I can quote dozens of article corroborating and defending the fact that Dempsey drew the color line on July 5th, 1919

    I can also quote articles wherein Langford and Wills bemoan the fact that Jack drew the color line, and both were ready to do their fighting in Europe because of this.

    What do you have to counter with, sir?
     
  9. Seamus

    Seamus Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Perhaps the Clausewitz quote was a little over your pay grade.

    My inquiry regards the timeline of Dempsey's relations to the color line by either explicit, or as the article I above quoted from 19 and 25, implicit means.

    Do I need to explain further both the use of the English language and/or the construction of its parts into coherent thought?
     
  10. LittleRed

    LittleRed Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    So Dempsey never fought black guys? His sparring partners were all whites?
     
  11. Seamus

    Seamus Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    He was not prepared to offer men of color the chance at his title is the import of my statement.

    He never fought a man of color after John Lester Johnson broke his ribs and sent him scurrying return style to the backwaters of the American West wherein coal miners and cattle handlers served as viable opponents.
     
  12. LittleRed

    LittleRed Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    He also never fought Harry Greb. Was he black?
     
  13. HOUDINI

    HOUDINI Boxing Addict Full Member

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    So you can cherry pick two articles out of thousands and that's fine? Headlines in 1920 stating Dempsey erases the color line you omit? Dempseys own words that Kearns did not want him to fight a black fighter are omitted? The prevailing thought was indeed that Kearns as well as Rickard were the issue not Dempsey.
     
  14. Shake

    Shake Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Dempsey is in the rosey situation where he can take the credit for his own accomplishments in this great sport. Is it not fair to demand he also takes credit for his choice of opponents?
     
  15. LittleRed

    LittleRed Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    So then Dempsey wouldn't fight a black man no matter the terms?

    Had Wills been white then Dempsey would have fought him is your contention.