Jack Dempsey and The Color Line...

Krapton is only in his early to mid 30's so very limited experience. His insulting nature reveals his inexperience.

 

How many of those 251 voters do you suppose had actually seen Dempsey live? How many had researched him extensively?

I struggle to take seriously a poll to find the greatest boxers of all-time which named 5 heavyweights in the top 7. A poll which had Jim Jeffries ahead of Sugar Ray Robinson, Sam Langford, Mickey Walker and Joe Gans. Robinson, Langford, Gans, Walker and Fitz got one vote each!

 

IBRO all time hwt rankings:

Joe Louis
Muhammad Ali
Jack Johnson
Jack Dempsey
Rocky Marciano
Larry Holmes
James J. Jeffries
George Foreman
Sonny Liston
Joe Frazier
Gene Tunney
Lennox Lewis
Mike Tyson
Evander Holyfield
Sam Langford
Jersey Joe Walcott
Ezzard Charles
Harry Wills
James J. Corbett
Bob Fitzsimmons

 

Mike Casey all time hwt rankings:

HEAVYWEIGHTS
01. Jack Dempsey (USA)
02. Muhammad Ali (USA)
03. Joe Louis (USA)
04. Jack Johnson (USA)
05. Rocky Marciano (USA)
06. Jim Jeffries (USA)
07. George Foreman (USA)
08. Joe Frazier (USA)
09. Sonny Liston (USA)
10. Lennox Lewis (England)
11. Mike Tyson (USA)
12. Gene Tunney (USA)
13. Larry Holmes (USA)
14. Ezzard Charles (USA)
15. Sam Langford (Canada)
16. Bob Fitzsimmons (England)
17. Evander Holyfield (USA)
18. Joe Jeannette (USA)
19. Max Baer (USA)
20. Max Schmeling (Ger

 

Jersey Jones the well respected boxing writer wrote... “At his peak Jack Dempsey was the most dynamic and devastating heavyweight this commentator has ever seen…Manassa Jack had speed, strength, better than average boxing skills, lusty punching power and a blazing spirit. His bobbing and weaving style made him a difficult target to hit solidly, but when he was, he had the “ruggedness” to take it. Dempsey packed one of the most powerful punching combinations in the game…”

 

Sam Langford, when asked how Harry Wills (whom he fought 18 times in his career) would do against Jack Dempsey, said in the June 5, 1922, Atlanta Constitution "Well if he ever fights Dempsey my money will be on the present champion. Dempsey is the greatest fighter I have ever seen. He hits twice as hard as Jim Jeffries and is as fast in the ring as James J. Corbett."

 

"At no time had DEMPSEY or Rickard any idea of pitting the champion against the Negro." -Nat Fleischer, Jack Dempsey the Idol of Fistiana 1929

This was in discussion the several contracts that were signed for Dempsey to face Wills. "it was found that the entire affair was nothing more than a hoax, for Dempsey and Kearns had at no time any intention of accepting such a match." -Nat Fleischer, Jack Dempsey the Idol of Fistiana 1929

Discussing Sonny Liston: "In fact hes so good that hes being given the same treatment that Jack Dempsey gave Harry Wills. Hes being shunned because of his punching prowess." -Nat Fleischer as quoted by Mike Quinlin Niagra Falls Gazette, May 17, 1960





This was on an article written documenting Dempsey ducking Wills since 1920. Fleischer conjectures that if the commission throws its weight behind Wills and Dempsey still refuses that Dempsey is clearly afraid. Thats exactly what happened. "Is It fear, as In the case of John L. Sullivan, or Is it interference on the part of the law makers that keeps Dempseyfrom tackling Wills? The answer Is certain to be known before." -Nat Fleischer, Schenectady Gazette April 23, 1926. As history showed the commission sided with Wills and refused to allow Dempsey to fight anyone in New York except Wills which prompted Dempsey to fight Tunney in Philadelphia.

"The best man in the field at present is the Negro Harry Wills who probably would knock out Dempsey and Carpentier. All the top notch heavyweights have barred Wills because the negro outclasses the field in cleverness and heavy hitting. He undoubtedly would score knockout over Gibbons." -Nat Fleischer, letter written to the El Paso Herald April 21, 1921.

 

Here is how noted historians both from Dempseys time and modern rated/rates Jack Dempsey all time:

Nat Fleischer no4 . 1971
Sam Langford no1
Nat Loubet no2 .1975
Charley Rose no3
Monte Cox no5 .1991
Bert Sugar no 1. 1991
Gene Tunney no 1.
Ray Arcel joint no1. with Louis and Ali
ESPN Readers Poll no1. 2007
Nigel Collins 1997.no9
Boxing Insider. no8
John Durant. no3 1976
Bill Brennan WBA President no3. 1978
Big Book Of Boxing Readers Poll no 4.1978
Arthur Harris.Boxing Scene no3.1992
Gilbert Odd no5.1985
Steve Farhood no6.1997
Herb Goldman no7 .1997
BBC Sports no5.2004
IBRO no5.2004
Richard O Brien Senior Editor of SI no6 .2009
Max Schmeling no 1.

 

And you full well know Fleischer took it upon himself to push for the integration of boxing. His first push was to do everything and anything he could to get Wills a fight for the hwt championship. He like some during that time tried to shame all those involved into making the match. Selective choosing of data is a mark of a very poor salesman.... I mean historian.

 

I dont care what you "think."

This is the sum total of your contribution to this thread. A discourse on k9 obedience school...

I dont boast. Its not a boast if its a fact and I havent plagiarized anything. Go look that word up and define it for us all here. It would be a healthy exercise for you since you obviously didnt learn it in whatever limited formal education youve experienced.

You want me to move to Pittsburgh?

Almost as comical as his drunken keyboard warrior original post I was responding to.

I dont give two ****s about a bunch of drunken pub crawling "faces" who would have theirs rearranged in any bar in the United States. Remember, this isnt a culture built on loveable losers and the reason they are crawling around your pubs is because we sent them packing 2 centuries ago. Now the best you can hope for is the s****s from our table. Bunch of real tough guys.

 

Tunney was the far better technical fighter so it depends on the criteria used to rank. Note that every historian ranks Dempsey.

 

Wait, so you get caught using selective data (a HW ranking list no less) and I refute it with actual quotes from the man and Im using selective data? LOL. You do realize that its entirely possible that Fleischer couldnt rank Wills any higher because Wills was prevented from being able to achieve more by your hero. But god forbid we look at the big picture, lets just narrow our view to a bunch of lists.

 

Listen, salesman who lives in a cheap home and claims he is a historian, Fleischer in the early 50's ranked the top hwts of all time. On that list was Langford who was another black who never got a title shot. Dempsey was ranked No 4 and Langford No 7. Guess who was not on the list? That's right Wills was not only Unranked but was not mentioned in his chapter of ATG fighters within "50 years at ringside" which was his first publication of his all time rankings. Not being a champion did not preclude a fighter from appearing on his rankings. Dempsey was ranked WAY ahead of Unranked Wills. Langford was on the list.....where is Wills if being a champion was not criteria for consideration? Bottom line Nat felt both Dempsey and Langford were far greater fighters.