Jack Dempsey and The Color Line...

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Seamus, Aug 4, 2013.


  1. Perry

    Perry Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    It was the tradition for all American hwt champions to draw the color line. 50% of historians today do not blame Dempsey for the Wills fight not coming off. Historians who know there history and that's not you could not blame Dempsey. This story is old news and Dempsey was exonerated 90 years ago.
     
  2. kingfisher3

    kingfisher3 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    if 50% of historians don't blame him then 50% do.
     
  3. klompton2

    klompton2 Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

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    You can drag a horse to water but you cant make him drink.

    In 1925 the NYSAC demanded Dempsey sign to fight Wills. Doc Kearns signed the articles. Dempsey promptly fired Doc Kearns and went to his friend Floyd Fitzsimmons to sign fake articles to face Harry Wills for a fight which never took place and never was going to take places. Just like what he did in 1922. All the while Dempsey was negotiating with Tex Rickard to defend against Tunney, seen as the lesser threat (which even Rickard admitted). The NYSAC was so opposed to the Wills fight (as you would have us believe) that Dempsey-Tunney was kicked out of NY specifically because they had sided with Wills. Nice try "perry" but the facts arent on your side in this one.

    There is no doubt Tex Rickard didnt want Dempsey to face Wills because he saw Dempsey as a meal ticket and didnt want him defeated. He sure didnt mind mixed race bouts when he matched Flowers and Greb in boxing's #2 marquee division. Rickard wasnt the only promoter in the world. Tons of them made offers. Dempsey ignored them. Dempsey didnt mind fighting for other promoters when it was a safe bet. He only ran and hid behind Rickards skirt when Harry Wills was brought up. And about Europe, Europe wasnt the only place that was willing promote the bout. There were offers from Cuba, Jaurez, MX, Tijuana, MX, and several placed in Canada. Ignored, ignored, ignored, ignored. Dempsey was never opposed to appearing in any of those places, and did as champion, unless Wills was the opponent. Then suddenly they werent good enough for him.
     
  4. Perry

    Perry Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Complete speculation. Note ALL your speculation is designed to paint Dempsey as the bad guy. Again it was not Dempseys job to set up fights. No historian except you believes Dempseys was afraid to fight anyone.
     
  5. Perry

    Perry Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Mixed race bouts were allowed at lighter weights. They were not allowed at hwt. Every historian except the salesman who thinks he is a historian understands this as an historical fact.
     
  6. Perry

    Perry Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Ali was offered by many countries millions to fight Foreman a second time. This bout did not occur. Do we then infer Ali was afraid to fight Foreman? None would unless they like you did not live through that time and purposefully twisted known history to suit an ajenda. The manner in which you approach examining history is very unprofessional.
     
  7. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    I have earned a BA (in history, no less), BS and MFA and speak four languages.
     
  8. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    And an MA in Libel?
     
  9. Perry

    Perry Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I would get a lawyer and sue.
     
  10. burt bienstock

    burt bienstock Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Intelligence and education is not necessarily transferred into
    judgment and fairness...Like the lyrics in the musical
    Porgy and Bess. "T'aint necessarily so'...
     
  11. klompton2

    klompton2 Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

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    "Then someone asked the big heavyweight if he thought there is a possibility of his meeting Dempsey in a ring. Said he: 'No I dont, and that is not because of the color line either. Just because Dempsey is afraid to take a chance with me." Harrisburg Evening News, September 17, 1925.

    So goes the myth that Wills never blamed Dempsey. LOL.
     
  12. klompton2

    klompton2 Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

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    Really? Ask yourself when the last mixed race MW championship was held? Rickard didnt have any problem breaking that standard whatsoever. None. You know who did? Dempsey. When interviewed after the fight he said he couldnt understand why Greb gave the negro a chance...
     
  13. Berlenbach

    Berlenbach Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Rickard was also happy enough to promote Wills vs Firpo.
     
  14. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    It certainly doesn't hurt when thinking critically over history.

    I apologize for quoting published works and articles, and referring to actual ring results. I will stick the popular myth from now on.
     
  15. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    Also consider he wasn't scared of Foreman because he had already knocked him out once.