Jack Dempsey and The Color Line...

No. I think I just disagree with the point whether it is from the early 20th century or from you.

I'll repeat--if you can beat the man, why not just beat him?

If there is no danger of losing, why avoid him?

Refusing to fight him is an acknowledgement that he can or at least might beat you.

That is obvious.

 

Again your so out in left field I am at a loss as to how to respond. You are just entirely missing the entire idea. One man cannot overcome an entire cultural mindset. In simple terms those that controlled not only boxing but the country did not want the bout to occur.

 

"controlled not only boxing but the country"

Accepting that this is true, they did not control the world.

So why flounder around in the USA banging your head against a stone wall.

Why not take the fight out of the country?

No one has given a good reason why they couldn't.

Also, boxing was regulated by the states, not by the Federal Government. The Congress could conceivably pass a law banning boxing or a Wills-Dempsey match, but they might have run into a filibuster in the Senate. Only one state had to go along to stage the fight unless the Federal Govt. intervened.

 

OK, by your reasoning alongst mathematical lines, "50% of
historians blame him {Jack Dempsey}, and 59% do NOT
blame him
90 years later...
Only on ESB boys and girls-
Only on ESB...

 

Strange then that Harry Greb somehow overcame this "cultural mindset" when he signed to fight Tiger Flowers. Even stranger that this fight was promoted by none other than Tex Rickard, who also must have overcome this "cultural mindset".

 

Sorry my calculator miss- fired ; "and 50% do NOT blame Dempsey"...
P.S. where the heck is this thread taking us ???

 

"One man cannot overcome an entire cultural mindset."

It wasn't an entire cultural mindset. If it were, no progress would ever have been made on Civil Rights. Some folks always fought against these injustices.

But anyway, didn't Branch Rickey change the entire cultural mindset when he integrated baseball with Jackie Robinson?

And frankly, in boxing, didn't Mike Jacobs and Joe Louis?

 

Gimme a break, "Cuba, Jaurez, MX, Tijuana, MX, and several placed in Canada". Then as now the US is where the real money was and is. You all most know Dempsey was making a lot of money outside of boxing, so there was no hurry to fight just anybody unless the money was there. As always there are three mouths to feed the promoter, who protects his cash cow, the manager who gets 50% and the fighter who pays everybody. They don't call this professional boxing for nothing. Everybody is in it to get paid. Legacy is not even a close second.
And yes mixed matches were allowed but not for the HW title, I posted an article on this thread saying just that.

 

Its funny that people keep trumpetimg supposed opposition when throughout history prior to dempseys reign there wasny just opposition to mixed matches but opposition to boxing in general and that opposition was much greater and backed by actual laws preventing the staging of fights and it didnt stop promoters from staging fights like corbett-sullivan, fitz-maher, jeffries-johnson, etc. The promoters and fighters simply went to where the fight could be staged whether it was in the mississippi backwoods, a sandbar between the u.s. and mexico, the desert, or a barhe in the ocean. Those promoters existed in Dempseys time and they had the will they just couldnt force dempsey into the ring. Hence: you can lead a horse to water but you cant make him drink. As has been saud before: if dempsey was really so confident he would have fought wills, beaten him, and moved on. But fighting Wills was a damn sight different than fighting a bunch of light heavies, a journeyman, and a crude caveman brought to this country with the express purpose of being hyped into a dempsey foil.

 

You are wayyy off the mark. The American culture was at a point where it was ready for integration by the time of Jackie Robinson. That was not the case 30-40 years prior. Even in Robinsens time he payed a heavy price as the first black in pro ball.

 

Krapton once again you are way off the mark.

 

Wow! Just four years before Dempsey won his title the HW championship changed hands in Cuba. Sonny Jim Coffroth, one of boxings most successful promoters EVER operated a huge venue in Tijuana where he tried to get Dempsey to fight Wills. Dempsey ignored. All of those other venues had the promoters, money, and location to stage such a bout. Dempsey ignored just like he ignored all other offers. The point is that if you are going to say "we cant stage it in the USA" then you have to entertain offers from other points of interest otherwise you are just making excuses. But lets be honest, thats all this is from the beginning. Weve heard an absolute litanny of excuses as to why Dempsey wouldnt fight Wills while completely ignoring any offer that might actually get the fight made. Sorry nuthuggers but thats a guy who doesnt want to fight.

You all most know Dempsey was making a lot of money outside of boxing, so there was no hurry to fight just anybody unless the money was there. As always there are three mouths to feed the promoter, who protects his cash cow, the manager who gets 50% and the fighter who pays everybody. They don't call this professional boxing for nothing. Everybody is in it to get paid. Legacy is not even a close second.
And yes mixed matches were allowed but not for the HW title, I posted an article on this thread saying just that. [/quote]

 

Sorry fairy but Im the one quoting actual facts and citing them. You can only answer back with your pet top ten lists.

 

You can't argue with this. If Dempsey wanted a fight, he could have changed the venue. He simply wanted no part of Wills.

 

Where was this rule written? Black fighters were never formally barred from fighting for the heavyweight title (or any other). It was individual champions (from all weight classes btw, not just heavyweights) who drew the colour line and froze them out, usually when there was a black man they didn't want to face.