Jack Dempsey and The Color Line...

Okay. That is certainly a reasonable point.

 

Here is a column by a well respected writer, Robert Edgren, The evening world., July 22, 1922:
WILLS 30 POUNDS HEAVIER
THAN JACK.
As for Harry Wills there's a fellow big enough to give Dempsey trouble, and he Is boxing all the time
and doesn't lack experience. Wills outweighs Dempsey thirty pounds or more. He Is 4 Inches taller and
blgger in every way. He's a good boxer. He isn't of the Jack Johnson type. Until recently Wills worked as a stevedore on the New York Wharves. He never figures In the police news. He's no speeder outside the ring
If Wills hasn't much of a record its because the most advertised boxers kept away from him. Fred Fulton was
bold enough, to take a chance, after beating Sam Langford without much trouble, Sam being far gone In
fat. Wills beat Fulton not within fifteen seconds as Dempsey did, but quickly enough. Sam Langford used to knock Wills out occasionally but when Sam became too ancient Wills had his turn. Wills made a poor showing with Bill Tate a while ago, losing the proud title of "colored champion" to Willlam, but there was a ***** look about that match. Bill Tate never figured as a world beater and Dempsey used to knock him out every day or two In the training camp.
There's one thing about the Dempsey-Wllls match that makes It a doubtful proposition for a promoter.
Wills has often been accused of holding and hitting and other stunts hardly In accord with the Marquis of
Queensberry's code. In a championship match a capable referee would Insist upon fighting according to the
rules, and if Wills has any careless habits they might crop up In a round or two, which would lead to a quick
disqualification and a short show. But on the whole, the only objection to a Wllls-Dempsey match Is
that It's a "mixed match," of the sort that has been prohibited In the past by the New York and other Box
ing Commissions because of the race rioting and other disturbances that are likely to follow. Apparently, the
New York Commission Is willing to shoulder the responsibility for the small detail.
On the NYC commissioner, Muldoon, I also posted his reply on this thread. Where he stated Dempsey had to fight Wills cos if he didn't he would be without a title the minute he steps off the boat in a NY port. Gee I wonder where that went. A lot of the posts here have a lot of assumptions. If Dempsey decided to fight Tunney and not fight Wills, it was cos of the MONEY, duh!!.

 

K, you might know a lot but you seem not to understand that boxing is a business, things changed drastically from the Sullivan days no longer could a fight be held in Bumfak, Idaho, or in someone's backyard. How you can bring that up is beyond me. Again believe this, if the same money that was paid for Carp and Tunney, was there for the Wills fight, I believe the fight could have been made. Even today the "high risk, little reward'', kicks in. Look at the most avoided fighter, fighting now, Rigondeaux, nobody wants to fight him, Donaire did but he only did it cos it was a million dollar fight for him Legacy is for the few who gives a sit, cos nobody else does. Do you really think, Rickard, Kearns and Dempsey sat around talking about his legacy, they all as now talk about how much money is to be made, period.

 

It wasn't a written rule, I suggest you look at all the HW titleholders from Tunney to Braddock, which one defended against a black fighter, besides Braddock. Louis got it cos he toed the line as his managers dictated, also Louis had to give up 10% to Braddock for the duration of his title reign to get the shot. It all boils down to Money.

 

There was MORE money there for Dempsey-Wills Dempsey just understood that making more for one fight was still not equal to what he would lose if he lost his championship and the ability to milk it. Even people who didnt support mixed race bouts agreed that it was the biggest fight of Dempseys career.

 

When thats all that dewey eyed hero worshippers have thats what they will rely on.

 

Louis gave Braddock nothing, Gould and Braddock got 10% of Jacobs earnings from the heavyweight title and that ended in litigation.

 

I am shocked some on here are not aware of the black balling of blacks in terms of being able to fight for the hwt championship against a white titleholder. This history is very well known. From Sullivan to Louis only Jack Johnson was able to get a shot at the hwt worlds championship. He was able to get this shot mainly because Burns was a Canadian. The powers that be warned Burns that he should not make the match. He did and the powers that be then swore it would never happen again. And it didn't until Louis in 1937. (Battling Johnson did get a title shot but against the black champion Jack Johnson.)

Krapton.....as I have shown you can make history as you like it by picking and choosing newspaper articles. I can do the same and insinuate Ali was afraid to give Foreman a rematch.

 

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Stop you're embarrassing yourself, I repeat then as now the money is here. You make a lot of assumptions and you are supposed to be a historian. The one that is the real nuthugger is you holding Wills so tightly. Why do you feel you have to call people names, state your case, but from what I see is you ignore what was said about the Dempsey- Wills fight, and come up with hearsay and your own interpretation to back up your statements. Wills didn't fight Dempsey for whatever reason, whether it was right or wrong.

 

Ok, but where did the money come from? Then as now businessmen pass the costs on. Louis, just got 10% less. That's business.

 

Exactly, IDK any champion in history who went out of their way to fight the toughest or thankless opponents for little pay if there was an easier opponent and more money to be had. I have to take your word that Dempsey would have made as much money fighting Wills as fighting Carp and Tunney. The figure that was quoted in one of the articles I posted was 250k to be divided for a fight in Canada.

 

Black fighters were blackballed by individual fighters. There was never any rule or law that specifically prevented a black man challenging for the heavyweight title. The kind of people who were opposed to mixed heavyweight fights would also object to a mixed middleweight fight, or indeed any mixed fight.

It always came down to the individual champions. Hence Greb was willing to defend against a deserving black challenger (and had no problems getting the fight staged, by Tex Rickard no less, at Madison Square Garden) while other champions hid behind the colour line.

Between Wills leaving the scene and Louis emerging, most of the top heavyweights were white. There was no situation comparable to Wills and Dempsey where a black fighter and the consensus top challenger was avoided year after year. Every champion after Tunney did eventually end up facing Louis.

 

It was an unwritten rule those that controlled boxing pushed hard for. Amazed you have such little knowledge of such a well known boxing history fact. THIS is why you cannot comprehend the Dempsey Wills issue. You do not understand the historical background or the American culture of this and earlier times. Suggest you buy a book and read it.

 

Greb was middleweight. The unwritten ban was for black hwts fighting for the hwt title.