Jack Dempsey and The Color Line...

From what I can tell, there was a lot less resistance to mixed race matches in lower weight classes, than there was at heavyweight.

For whatever reason, the heavyweight title was seen as the sacred cow.

 

That seems to be a reasonable assessment, but it obviously doesn't suit those with an agenda against Dempsey.

Sitting here reading this thread I have to laugh at the revisionist nonsense some of these posters are spewing out about racist Murica of the 1910' and 20's.

They say it wasn't " law " that a black guy couldn't fight for the HWT title of the world. Well of course it wasn't. The whole point of racism is its insidiousness.

I can well imagine a guy standing for mayor, or election as a chief of police saying he was going to stand on a platform of equal rights for blacks, or indeed " any " rights for blacks.

He wouldn't even have got many votes from members of his own fukking family never mind anyone else.

Also how many BLACK commissioners were there on these state athletic commissions in those days?

Another naive piece of revisionist clap trap in this thread is the suggestion that Dempsey should have " proven " the inherent Murican belief in white supremacy by taking on and beating Wills.

All very well, but a society that dehumanises blacks and considers them as nothing more than dogs, that they are willing to beat or kill like dogs just for hell of it, doesn't feel the need to prove its perceived superiority. That is deeply entrenched in the mindset of the racist filth.

However the funniest, and most ironic part is thse people that propped up racism in Murica, last century are more than highly likely the ancestors of the very people posting on ESB today.:yep

 

I think that people are quick to forget how dominant Willard was seen to be as a champion.

Nobody at the time was saying “Willard is old, he’s been inactive, this fight is pure murder”.

 

Willard was quick to draw the colour line after defeating
Johnson, he wouldn't even have a black sparring partner . He turned down Bill Tate. How many blacks did Willard fight ?

Tom Sharkey fought 1 I believe.
Fitz a couple.
Corbett 1
Sullivan none .
Tunney none

 

I don’t think that there were any particularly strong black contenders during Willard’s reign.

At least not until the latter years, when Wills started to emerge as a potential challenger.

 

Yes, his entire record of wins - or any of a selection of his best ones - makes him an ATG.
Almost no one disputes it because they don't view those wins through the same distorted prism of hate as you do.
:good

 

We could start with the fact that we are still arguing about him today.

 

To me K, this entire thread subject is tiring me out. I hate to repeat myself, but I have been reading about Dempsey and his times for about 75 darn long years, I have been to Stillman's
Gym in the mid 1940s on, talking about fighters in the gym and fighters of yesteryear with older men who were around in the 1920s, and the subject of Jack Dempsey and Harry Wills never came up...Since those long ago days I have read tons of books and articles about Jack Dempsey , written by boxing writers who saw him many times and his ability in the boxing ring was never questioned. I recall in 1950 the poll of veteran boxing writers
who saw Dempsey in the ring and by a large majority named him the best heavyweight they had seen...A Nat Fleischer who saw them all from about 1910 on chose Jack Johnson, but my point is
Dempsey was uno #1 by the majority of veteran boxing writers.
I recall when my man Rocky Marciano was heavyweight champion in about 1954 or so, a group of older boxing writers were asked this question" who would have won between Jack Dempsey and Rocky Marciano, both in their prime " ?. Almost
to a man they chose Dempsey because of his quicker and more accurate punching... So K , my point is UNTIL I first got on the internet and ESB, I never heard such negativity directed on any fighter, especially on Jack Dempsey, as I have on this site by a few whose ego is so inflated that they seem to think that
they KNOW more about the merits in the ring of Jack Dempsey,
then the multitudes of boxers, trainers, boxing writers who saw him ringside before 1923 and were mightily impressed by his
speed, vicious two handed punching, and toughness in the squared circle....So who am I to believe K ? All the veteran boxing people who saw him and his contemporaries fight in the ring or a handful of revisionists who 90 years later spout out such rubbish about a DEMPSEY they believe to be a coward in the ring and just a step above Butterbean as a fighter ?
You K decide, whilst I have a brew...:hi:

 

I put him in the ATG class somewhere,

probably between 10 and 15,

but the holes in his resume drag him down compared to the fighters who fought the best of their time and beat all of them for a while and most of them over their whole careers.


*in my youth, I would have considered him #1. I read all the articles in the boxing magazines. He was a charismatic and interesting man and even as a retiree got loads of coverage.

As I grew older, I began forming my own judgments on what makes one great in boxing and/or any other field, and for me the bottom line is what one accomplished. Dempsey falls a bit short of the top rung.

 

No fighter ever becomes less great over time.

If he was not great, then how many gloved fighters before him were better, even by the most damning assessment?

 

According to the Dempsey haters Wills was the number one contender for 7 years. Wills was the Coloured Champ when Dempsey beat Willard, in fact he defended that title against Langford the same day .

 

We are talking about the ability to judge a particular fighters
merits {Dempsey in this case] in the ring. Who better to gage a man's prowess in the ring ? . The thousands of people who saw him ringside and saw his successors fight, or truly a handful of "haters" [no other word will suffice] who despise him 90 years later ?. Well to these naysayers, I rest my case...:happy
P.S. S, the above men you cite, were politicians whose policies you can judge, besides I saw them all in the ring and none were as good as Dempsey...Nice try S, but no cigar.atsch