You're doing it again. Why are they all "GREB VICTIMS?" Billy Miske lost to freaking everybody. Why wasn't Miske a Tommy Gibbons victim? Or a Battling Levinsky victim? They beat him repeatedly, too, before Miske got a title shot. And how was Gene Tunney a Harry Greb victim? He beat Greb three times. How was Tommy Gibbons a Harry Greb "victim?" He beat Greb, too. Wasn't Greb a "Gene Tunney Victim?" Hell, after 1923, Gene Tunney and Tommy Loughran were BOTH arguably more qualified challengers than Greb was. Tunney beat Greb THREE times during/after that. And the year Tunney fought Dempsey, Greb couldn't even beat Tiger Flowers - a middleweight. But this guy who is losing to Tunney and Loughran and losing to a middleweight Flowers is going to beat Dempsey? Yep. Greb outpointed some names Dempsey beat, and Greb lost to some. For the life of me I don't know how that makes Greb better than Dempsey.He was too small and didn't hit hard enough. He wasn't a younger, bigger future-is-ahead-of-him Cassius Clay vs. Liston. He was an older, smaller, light-hitting one-eyed middleweight.
The same guys slagging Dempsey for not fighting Greb would be slagging him if he had fought him and done a Carpentier on him," beating on a little middleweight etc".
I'm more concerned with him not fighting Wills.I think Jack ko's both of them but Wills was the logical choice.By all accounts Greb found the 181lbs Tunney entirely too big and strong for him in 1925. Tunney gave Greb as thorough a beating as he has ever received. So completely was Greb outclassed and outfought in six of the ten rounds that he resorted to a defensive fight after the third and thereafter was guilty of persistent holding and stalling varied only by rare flashes of offensive fighting, which Tunney quickly terminated by a devastating attack. Tunney concentrated his fire almost entirely on Greb's heart and body, landing with deadly accuracy and telling effect. After a flashy start, Greb went on the defensive and let entire rounds go by without making more than a weak show of attack, without landing a decisive punch, even on those rare occasions when he undertook to do the leading." (Associated Press) Wouldn't he have found the bigger ,stronger, harder hitting Dempsey an even harder opponent?
No, because Carpentier had not beaten a decent heavyweight in 7 years. Greb had beaten plenty of them recently.
Yes. A bigger, stronger, harder hitting Dempsey would've bowled the one-eyed, slapping middleweight over. Greb couldn't throw anything back to keep Dempsey off of him. And Dempsey wouldn't have wasted any time trying to "figure out" his style or ways to outbox him. Dempsey KO1 Greb. Harry Wills was the legit top heavyweight contender throughout Dempsey's reign. They should've faced two or three times. But the Ku Klux Klan was a big political power in the 1920s, and a lot of politicians didn't want anything to do with staging a heavyweight title fight featuring a black man in their city. (Jack Johnson's reign was still fresh in everyone's minds.) Just bad timing all around.
You do realize that Greb and Dempsey sparred and the exact opposite of what you imagine occurred, don't you? And please don't tell me that Dempsey took it easy in sparring. If Dempsey were to beat Greb, it would be late, not early. Much like if he were ever to beat Fat Willie Meehan or Tommy Gibbons.
If we were talking about any other fighter on the face of the earth you wouldn't have even typed that. Sparring doesn't mean jack. It never has. I'm sure you'd say the same thing if we weren't talking about Harry Greb. I remember when Ishe Smith was supposedly the most dangerous sparring partner anyone around junior middleweight could get. Don't you? Remember when Gary Lightbourne was Mike Tyson's chief sparring partner because he could give and take with Tyson more than most. If sparring meant anything, Rodney Bobick would've won the title from Muhammad Ali, and Greg Page would've beaten Tyson for the crown. The list of guys who looked good against someone in sparring could go on for DAYS. When you're stripped to the waist, wearing small gloves, in front of a paying crowd and the World Heavyweight Championship is on the line, it's not the same as sparring. Don't embarrass yourself.
Dempsey would steamroll him. Greb got hurt and staggered in a lot of fights. The moment Dempsey cracked him and Greb wobbled, he'd be all over him. Dempsey-Greb wouldn't looked like Tyson-Spinks. And Spinks didn't get rocked in his fights like Greb reportedly did quite frequently - even against no-names.
Of course it was just sparring but it offers more insight than keyboard warrior imaginings 100 years later. And it's not as if Dempsey ever took it easy in sparring or the sessions were even close. Please don't ask me to take your KO1 prediction, something Dempsey found impossible to do to smaller quicker fighters, as more credible than two actual sparring sessions which were reported on. That would be embarrassing. You act as if Greb''s challenge to the title was unfounded. However, contemporary writers were calling for it. Not me or any other poster on the yet to be born internet, but paid commentators of the day.
Harry Wills was the number-one heavyweight contender. People wanted Dempsey to fight Wills. That was the fight. It wasn't Dempsey vs a middleweight. I could find articles where writers said Lennox Lewis and Roy Jones should fight - after Jones oupointed Ruiz - but nobody was picking Roy Jones to win and if Lewis and Jones had signed to fight it would've been considered a joke matchup ... because it would've been. If someone reads a couple of brief newspaper articles on two sparring sessions and decide Greb BEATS Dempsey ... even though sparring means nothing AND THEY'VE NEVER SEEN GREB FIGHT ... ithat's ridiculous. Hell, I don't even know if Greb beats Jess Willard - one of the worst heavyweight champs ever ... because Willard was so much bigger. Tommy Loughran beat Greb and was also one of the best light heavyweights ever ... and Loughran couldn't beat Carnera (one of the worst heavyweight champs ever) because Primo was too big and strong. All this Greb beats Dempsey nonsense has gotten out of hand. Lewis KO1 Jones. Dempsey KO1 Greb.
I was just stating that those news reports regarding the sparring sessions are infinitely more credible about a potential match-up than your trite "KO1"... You've just painted yourself into a corner on this one. Perhaps you are forgetting that the difference in size between Greb and Dempsey (168-188) wasn't so great as that between Jones', Jr and Lewis (175-240+)... that's just a false equivalency. Even then , at an inflate 193, Jones, Jr. beat a 223 Ruiz.
Jack Dempsey wasn't John Ruiz. And how have I painted myself in a corner? Are Dempsey and Greb going to prove me wrong?atsch:roll: Dempsey was one of the most vicious KO artists in boxing history and the World Heavyweight Champion. Greb was an all-time great in the lower weight classes who was smaller than Dempsey and couldn't punch a lick. When the World Heavyweight Title was on the line, Mike Tyson KOed Michael Spinks in 1. Joe Frazier KOed Bob Foster in 2. Joe Louis KOed John Henry Lewis in 1. All those guys (Spinks, Foster, Lewis) hit harder than Greb. Those lighter guys could've all arguably beaten Greb, too. The heavyweights (Tyson, Frazier, Dempsey, Louis) CERTAINLY would have. Greb wasn't some beast at heavyweight. Harry Wills was the number-one heavyweight throughout Dempsey's reign. Greb never faced Wills. Sam McVea and Joe Jeannette were top heavyweight contenders when Dempsey won the title. Greb didn't fight or beat them.Sam Langford was the best middleweight/light heavyweight during the teens and early 20s, Greb didn't fight him. Greb lost three times to Gene Tunney. Greb lost two times to Tommy Gibbons. He arguably lost both of his fights to light heavy Kid Norfolk. He never faced Sharkey. Greb wasn't some number-one heavyweight who waited years for a shot. He was a big name in the lighter weight classes, with a quirky style, who couldn't punch a lick, who would've taken a title shot if offered. But he didn't "deserve" anything at heavyweight. There are a ton of guys who had a stronger claim of a heavyweight title shot than Greb ... some of whom I mentioned. If Dempsey fought guys who didn't deserve a title shot, that doesn't mean Greb deserved to jump to the front of the line. He didn't DESERVE one either. This "logic" you guys are spouting is all ass-backwards.
